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How to be a non-believer in a believing world

Puppycow said:
Have you ever considered moving to a large city? There may be different problems in a large city, but finding other non-religious people probably isn't one of them. Of course, cities also have religious people but I think fewer per capita.
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I'm from a bigger city. I'm retired and the cost of living is much better. This is great for someone who likes the outdoors.
 
psionl0 said:
Did your research distinguish between people who are devoutly religious (follow all of the teachings of their religion as far as possible) and those who merely give lip service to their religion?
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That's an important distinction. Even I used to put my religion down as Anglican, because that's what I brought up as, even though I was an atheist. I know a lot of people who give religion no thought do the same.

In NZ, the split between belief/non-belief is about 50/50, according to census data, but I bet the number of actually religious people is much, much lower.
 
Orphia Nay said:
The three stages of being proselytised at or pressed on your beliefs

"I'm not religious."

"I don't want to discuss it."

"I've looked into it in great detail and it makes me angry at all the [contradictions and insanity in the Bible / your main beef with religion] and you don't want to hear about it, so for your own sake, let it drop."
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My response to being asked my religious affiliation is usually, "I don't believe in religion."

If I am being pressed, or annoyed, I'll say "I'm not superstitious." That's usually enough to stop people.
 
ahhell said:
I'll pick a nit, its not all of rural America, its the bible belt only. I grew up in a small farm town, it wasn't an issue there, isn't now.

Start by not destroying the religion. If that's your goal good luck and prepare to not have friends. As a USian, with lots of religious friends and associates, I find your problem baffling, I've been friends and even gone to church with folks that tried to convert me. It didn't take long to convince them it wasn't happening and somehow, I stayed friends.
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It depends on what part of Rural America. There is a hell of a lot of difference between a small town in Illinois and a small town in Misississipi and a small town in Calfornia.
 
ahhell said:
I'm pretty sure that's not most faiths but rather most Christian faiths.
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This, Hinduism and Buddhsim have a totally different take; it is not so much you are a sinner buy you are trapped in a false material world of desire and need enlightment to escape it and the endless cycle of Karma.
 
Minoosh said:
I wrote a lot - which specific part is the No True Scotsman fallacy?

(If you don't want to get too much into the weeds here I don't blame you.)

Conversely, why would you lump them all together? The way I interact with "believers" is going to be affected by their beliefs. If I invite someone who keeps kosher over for dinner I'm not serving ham. If my co-worker strongly believes in the reality of demons, I'm not wearing my devil horns to work on Halloween.

The differences interest me. That's just me. But ... I wasn't talking about your or I differentiating to begin with; I was talking about Christians disavowing each other.

You say it's not up to you, *as a non-Christian*, to say who is or isn't a Christian. I contend it's not up to Christians to make that determination either. So it's not your non-Christianity that disqualifies you.

Having said that, to me you seem better qualified to judge than the perky blonde Fox personality who said, "We all know Mitt Romney is not a Christian." I think he is. I don't have to be a Christian to have an opinion.

That sounds like elections in Iran. There might be 9 candidates, but they're all to the right of Newt Gingrich.
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It is all ridiculous in my opinion, but no doubt the Mormon concept of God is a lot different then the standard Christian concept of God. In fact, the LDS is pretty much, though they never use the word, Polytheistic (everyond if he is a good Mormon can become a God) and that directly contradicts the Monotheism of Classic Christinaity. If is fine to think it is all crazy, but ,yes, there are very basic theological diffrences between Standard Chrisntinity and the LDS.
 
dudalb said:
It depends on what part of Rural America. There is a hell of a lot of difference between a small town in Illinois and a small town in Misississipi and a small town in Calfornia.
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Yes, there is. The issue is more pronounced in the Bible Belt and the South. That is true. But I live in a small town in Washington State. Something about rural towns makes them conducive to an outsized influence of religion. I've also had friends that tell me similae stories about Mormons in Utah and Idaho.
 
dudalb said:
It is all ridiculous in my opinion, but no doubt the Mormon concept of God is a lot different then the standard Christian concept of God. In fact, the LDS is pretty much, though they never use the word, Polytheistic (everyond if he is a good Mormon can become a God) and that directly contradicts the Monotheism of Classic Christinaity. If is fine to think it is all crazy, but ,yes, there are very basic theological diffrences between Standard Chrisntinity and the LDS.
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by said:
It is all ridiculous in my opinion, but no doubt the Mormon concept of God is a lot different then the standard Christian concept of God. In fact, the LDS is pretty much, though they never use the word, Polytheistic (everyond if he is a good Mormon can become a God) and that directly contradicts the Monotheism of Classic Christinaity. If is fine to think it is all crazy, but ,yes, there are very basic theological diffrences between Standard Chrisntinity and the LDS.
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But is there any such thing as "Standard Christianity"? That's where I'm going with it. For me, is not the polytheistic aspects of Mormonism that immediately strike me as incompatible with mainstream Christianity; it's the lack of belief in original sin. If you don't need Jesus to die on the cross to redeem you, then what is Jesus for?

I also wonder if it really counts as dying when less than 2 days later you're alive again. God sacrificed his son? Not for long, he didn't.
 
Minoosh said:
But is there any such thing as "Standard Christianity"? That's where I'm going with it. For me, is not the polytheistic aspects of Mormonism that immediately strike me as incompatible with mainstream Christianity; it's the lack of belief in original sin. If you don't need Jesus to die on the cross to redeem you, then what is Jesus for?

I also wonder if it really counts as dying when less than 2 days later you're alive again. God sacrificed his son? Not for long, he didn't.
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arthwollipot said:
Jesus stopped being human when he was killed. and reverted to his divine form.
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FTFY
 
acbytesla said:
FTFY
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Was that before or after he had given up his faith?

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Matthew 27:46 ESV.
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Was that before or after he had given up his faith?

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Matthew 27:46 ESV.
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The "my god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me" in Mark and Matthew is actually a call back to one of the psalms specifically no 22* which ends up being a paeam to Yhwh's alleged greatness and power.

Of course, Luke and John, whose writers didn't understand why there were call backs to jewish scripture or where they were, changed the words of Jesus' alleged death.

*In fact they form the title of the poem.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
The "my god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me" in Mark and Matthew is actually a call back to one of the psalms specifically no 22* which ends up being a paeam to Yhwh's alleged greatness and power.

Of course, Luke and John, whose writers didn't understand why there were call backs to jewish scripture or where they were, changed the words of Jesus' alleged death.

*In fact they form the title of the poem.
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You, Sir, Pervert the Holy Word of the Lord. I Interpret the Bible.

:duck:
 
arthwollipot said:
According to my research (a quick question to Copilot) according to recent estimates approximately 84% of the global population identifies with a religious group.

Okay, strap in, because this one actually has an answer.

When you die, your spirit goes to heaven but your body is left behind to be buried or cremated or whatever. When you get resurrected in the End Times you are bodily restored so that you get to spend the rest of eternity embodied in the presence of God, and not just as a spirit.

Make sense?
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Thanks for that explanation. It's one I've wondered about every time I've attended a religious funeral. I keep being mildly inspired to write a post with the same question, but never enough to actually do it.
 
crazycat said:
Thanks for that explanation. It's one I've wondered about every time I've attended a religious funeral. I keep being mildly inspired to write a post with the same question, but never enough to actually do it.
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You're welcome. Keep in mind that I can only report what I was told as a churchgoer in a particular kind of faith thirty years ago. Different denominations may have different interpretations. I am not an expert on them all. Or any, really.
 
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