Merged 2024 Election Thread

[Beelzebuddy]

Got it, so the guy who couldn’t overcome the machinations of his own party is the best choice to go up against the machinations of the Republicans.

Well the gal who was propped up by those machinations with an "it's her turn" managed to lose to a racist jar of bronzer wearing a wig, so maybe it's not the fine honing process you seem to think.

 

[dirtywick]

https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-special-election-congress-results-1911576

ohio special election comes in with an unsurprising rep win in a historically red district, but by a 20 point shift towards the dems.

 

[johnny karate]

Well the gal who was propped up by those machinations with an "it's her turn" managed to lose to a racist jar of bronzer wearing a wig, so maybe it's not the fine honing process you seem to think.

I'm not claiming it's a "fine honing process". I'm sure it's dirty and ugly. My point is, a general election against Republicans is dirtier and uglier.

 

[stanfr]

There are others who have said he is and the response was aimed at them as well as you.

No there aren't--you tried to blame Stacyh and lied about that as well. Stop lying.

As to the "could be", the earth could be struck by an asteroid next week.

.

Yep, which is why scientists and policy makers plan for that possibility. We should also try to prevent Trump from becoming the dictator he wants to be, and despite your rose colored glasses, that potential is far greater than any asteroid.

I was assured before 2016 that TRUMP winning would have an affect on the entire world. It made zero difference here, and I don't believe the next TRUMP presidency will either.

your beliefs are irrelevant, you can believe in Santa Claus, I don't care.

Hyperbole much?

He does not control either SCOTUS or the House. If he tries to do something unconstitutional, I'm confident he'd be stopped. The idea that he controls the Republicans in Congress is laughable given the failures of Crazy Marge and pals to oust Johnson.

Johnson is extremely pro Trump--that is *all* that matters to Trump. If you don't think he controls the GOP, witness how he prevented *bipartisan* legislation, introduced by conservatives, that would have brought a comprehensive immigration policy. The moment T said: "don't do it, because it will hurt me" They obeyed.

If Bernie (or anyone else but Hillary) had been the opponent in 2016, we wouldn't be here now, and Trump would be back to being the laughing-stock he always was.

The Democrats screwed up royally, all because Hillary somehow deserved the niomination.

I would agree that Hillary was a mistake, due to the (largely undeserved) vilification by the right wing that was preexisting and motivated their base.
But guess who damned Hillary? It wasn't the Dems--it was last minute Comey revelations and the polls reflected that shift. I voted for Bernie in the primary--but I'll be the first to admit he would have struggled against T in the general because he could easily be labeled as a socialist (aka Communist if you're a right winger). He did fare better vs T in head to head polls, but I trust those polls about as well as I trust the ones showing T beating Biden right now.
You are basically blasting the 2-Party system, which I won't take issue with,
but that doesn't negate the fact that Trump is the real threat here, no matter what you think of Biden this election is truly Good (or at least the potential for good) vs Evil.

 

[johnny karate]

Republicans are not 0-20 against Trump. He's lost primaries, most recently, Wash. DC. to a candidate not even running.

We're not talking about individual primaries, we're talking about candidates. Haley may have won some primaries, but Trump still beat her.

 

[johnny karate]

I have brought up governor's Whitmer and Polis. Sure, Polis is gay but someone that isn't going to vote for a gay is probably already voting for trump. He generally been a good governor and often brought up as a sorta libertarian dem which might help with Reps that don't want to vote for Trump. Whitmer, probably won't get an Rep votes but probably won't loose any dem votes. Worst thing about her is the fairly hard line on Covid Shut downs. Dems probably not getting any votes that that will loose. And neither is a million years old.

But, its too late for that unless Biden really have some significant health issues by the convention.

I'm not aware that Whitmer or Polis have big enough national profiles to overcome the inherent risk of replacing an incumbent who has already proven he can beat Trump.

Biden is old. I get it. But this idea that he could be replaced by anyone is silly. There has to be a viable option or it's a non-starter.

 

[johnny karate]

Perhaps it's some form of subconscious internalisation of Trump's claim that the 2020 elections were rigged because many people seem to have forgotten Biden has already beaten Trump once, even when Trump had the apparent advanatge of being in office.

And it was an election cycle in which we heard all the same arguments about Biden that we're hearing now.

 

[Paul2]

She equated giving one's life to voting. That's idiotic and wrong.

Nice of you to try to defend her when she clearly realised her own mistake and blocked replies. If she's not prepared to defend it, why are you?

deleted

 

[plague311]

...a sorta libertarian dem...

I know you have a huge love for libertarians. You bring them up as much as possible, but there's a reason none of them win on a national level. Actually, there are probably many. I pay a lot of attention to politics and I've never even heard of Polis but if he was listed as a choice in the election it would force me to leave the POTUS vote blank. I have no love for libertarian anything. They're generally nonsensical.

 

[dirtywick]

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-owns-gun-convicted-felon-1911767

now that we're taking gun laws seriously. did he fill out some form or do they just expect you not to have an illegal gun?

 

[Stacyhs]

The fact that Bernie was who the people actually wanted both of the last couple of times and they only got scared into settling for less because of the party machine's lying fear-smear campaigns against him both times is not Genocide Joe's current problem.

Yeah...I stopped reading there. Really, you need to get over Bernie losing, bro.

 

[Delvo]

Got it, so the guy who couldn’t overcome the machinations of his own party is the best choice to go up against the machinations of the Republicans.

Now would be a good time to support the premise that the party's primary process selects the most effective person to run in the general election. We've been waiting for years.

 

[johnny karate]

Now would be a good time to support the premise that the party's primary process selects the most effective person to run in the general election. We've been waiting for years.

No one claimed anything about the effectiveness of a party’s primary process. The question was who would be a viable candidate to replace Biden and defeat Trump. You’ll need to explain how someone who is older than Biden and couldn’t win a primary is that candidate.

 

[Solitaire]

It looks like Kennedy is taking more votes from Trump than from Biden. If his own hired representative a month or two ago was representing him accurately, meaning his purpose in running is to work against Biden and give Trump the win, he'll probably realize that what he's doing is counterproductive and drop out.

Oh? Just how is RFK doing?

Interview With Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

Kennedy: I think that we're in a different time in history than we've ever been before. I'm running against the two least popular candidates who have ever run for president. I'm running at a time when between 70% and 80% of Americans, depending on what poll that you follow, doesn't want a contest between President Trump and President Biden. In polls that pit me against either candidate, I beat them both. There's three polls that have done this. The biggest poll is the Zogby poll, which is the biggest poll done during this election, it's 10 times the size of almost any other poll. 26,000 respondents were surveyed, and I beat Biden in a head to head race 39 states to 11. So in a landslide. I beat President Trump, but [by] a much, much narrower margin. In both cases, President Biden, whether I'm in the race or out, cannot beat President Trump. I, I stay in the race, President Biden loses. If I get out of the race, he loses even worse, he loses two more states, Maine and Virginia. So what I've said to President Biden is that I will do a spoiler agreement with you. And let's co-fund a national poll in October. And whichever one of us does worse against President Trump, that one will drop out, and I'm happy to abide by that poll.

I get the feeling he'll run till the end.

 

[Delvo]

No one claimed anything about the effectiveness of a party’s primary process.

Of course you did. It's built in to the next thing you said as a premise. There's no way to extract it and still have that challenge/demand be a thing at all.

You’ll need to explain how someone who... couldn’t win a primary is that candidate.

 

[johnny karate]

Of course you did. It's built in to the next thing you said as a premise. There's no way to extract it and still have that challenge/demand be a thing at all.

Pointing out that Sanders lost the primary is in no way making any claims about the nature of the primary. Sanders lost the primary. That you think the primary system is somehow rigged or unfair is irrelevant to that fact.

You, however, seem to think that Sanders is a viable option to Biden and have yet to provide any reason anyone else should think that.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Sanders was the kind of candidate who could beat Trump.
The fact that the DNC won't support such candidate shows that Democrats care more about not going Left than about winning elections.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

About Primaries:

Harris won.... absolutely nothing. She didn't bring anything to the ticket. Arguably, she hurt Biden's election chances and still does - she has said and done nothing that would make anyone think she'd be a decent President, even though she's VP to the oldest POTUS ever.
Biden picked her because the Donors liked her.

 

[Delvo]

Pointing out that Sanders lost the primary is in no way making any claims about the nature of the primary.

By itself, yes. But adding another element to it, by treating it as a sign of how the general election would go, or would have gone, does make such a claim. If it weren't built in as a premise, then there wouldn't be a call for a counter to it. If I say "prove to me that cars can be plaid", I'm claiming that the default position is that cars aren't/can't-be plaid.

You, however, seem to think that Sanders is a viable option to Biden and have yet to provide any reason anyone else should think that.

I did over & over again back when it was relevant. For right now, I don't have anything in particular to say about him myself, and none of what I've said about the present situation has had anything to do with him. I'm only answering invalid fallacious points that others keep bringing him up for such as "he didn't win the primary so he wouldn't win the general".

 

[Delvo]

I get the feeling he'll run till the end.

Quite interesting, for somebody who hired a campaign manager or spokeswoman or what ever she was, who openly told a crowd that Biden is the common enemy of Kennedy & Trump and the whole point of it all is to help Trump beat Biden.