Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[junkshop]

Just because Vixen points and shouts "squirrel" you are not obliged to to chase the alleged beastie.

 

[JayUtah]

Just because Vixen points and shouts "squirrel" you are not obliged to to chase the alleged beastie.

Especially when she points to a tree stump and calls it a squirrel.

 

[phiwum]

So if the numberplate cannot have been the one ascribed initially to car zero, then it was not ipso facto a 2014 Range Rover Sport.

Would anyone like to volunteer being wrong in their insistence that it was...?*


*It's OK, I'll let you off.

You surely know this is a stupid argument, right?

There is a video of the vehicle from the rear. If that video is consistent with a Sport of the proper year, then that is evidence that the vehicle is a Sport and perhaps also of the same year.

Now, I have no opinion about whether it's a Sport or not, because I don't know anything about that model and the exact model of the vehicle doesn't matter to me. But your, oh, let's say, reasoning is crap unless there is only one 2014 Sport registered in the UK.

 

[junkshop]

Edit - NVM, I was being unnecessarily argumentative, but I shall leave this bit, because Bowie references are cool:

...Like sister Flo, I don't make false claims.

 

[Vixen]

First, Sunak does not own any companies, and as far as I have been able to determine, he never has. This is a misapprehension you have due to your failure to research his actual business career and interests, because claiming he owns a company that is benefitting from decisions he might make as PM suits your conspiracy theory.

Second, Sunak has investments that are controlled by what the the Independent Adviser on Ministers' Interests characterized as a "blind management arrangement," as I mentioned earlier. However, if you Google "Sunak" and "blind trust," you will find that this was in fact reported in several newspapers at the time. So we're back to your demanding evidence well beyond that which would satisfy a reasonable person.

He owns Theleme, registered in the Cayman Islands.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen is conflating what it takes to register a company. Yes, certain disclosures are required. But that has absolutely nothing to do with a trust. There is no canonical disclosure or registration without which a trust is not legally valid and enforceable. Because she invoked corporate governance earlier (the concept, not just the wording), she can't very easily back out of it now. She's trying, though.

"I see no evidence of a legally recognized trust, so I'm going to keep using 'steward,'" is dumb on two levels. The first we've already mentioned: there is no general public registration or recognition process for a trust. Nor should there be for a blind trust. That a blind trust is registered on Parliament's register of interests is a feature of being a Member of Parliament, not a requirement of trusts in general.

Second, someone properly called a steward would need public recognition of that. It's like saying, "I don't accept that you're legally recognized babysitter, so I'm going to call you 'police officer.'" Phiwum continues to be vindicated: Vixen seems oblivious to the instances where her evidence hurts her argument instead of helping it.

Look. Sunak's firm is registered in the Cayman Islands so nobody knows anything about its structure or financial statements. It is referred to in places as a hedge fund entity. On the Ministerial Register of Interests he has listed it as a 'blind trust' . This is a generic term and not a legal one in this context. He is just using the term as used by others. A 'Trustee' relationship is a legal principle and as no UK court has any jurisdiction over companies registered in the Caymans I really cannot see that Sunak has a formal legally recognised Trustee in place. More likely he has hired stewards to run his company. Otherwise, why else would he refuse to reveal who the appointed Trustee is?

 

[zooterkin]

Look. Sunak's firm is registered in the Cayman Islands so nobody knows anything about its structure or financial statements. It is referred to in places as a hedge fund entity. On the Ministerial Register of Interests he has listed it as a 'blind trust' . This is a generic term and not a legal one in this context. He is just using the term as used by others. A 'Trustee' relationship is a legal principle and as no UK court has any jurisdiction over companies registered in the Caymans I really cannot see that Sunak has a formal legally recognised Trustee in place. More likely he has hired stewards to run his company. Otherwise, why else would he refuse to reveal who the appointed Trustee is?

And this means the car where the fire started was not a diesel, how?

 

[Mojo]

He owns Theleme, registered in the Cayman Islands.

Do you have a citation for that? The sources I've seen so far say that he was a partner in it, but left in 2013.

 

[Vixen]

Do trusts really need to be set up in court?

There are different types of trust. The most common type in the UK would probably come under Wealth Management, in which an accountant will set up trusts to ring fence against taxes, most specifically Inheritance Tax (for example, for the provision of children's education or for when they come of age) or if someone wins a very large sum of money, they might hire a Wealth Management accountant to do this type of tax avoidance stuff. My area was more to do with Trustees in Bankruptcy and that type of Trustee is done via a petition in the High Court. The Trustee in Bankruptcy then takes control over all of the Bankrupt's financial affairs. A trustee relationship usually implies a third party beneficiary, in the case of Wealth Management, your kids; for a Bankrupt, the beneficiaries are your creditors. AIUI a 'blind trust arrangement' on the Ministerial Register looks to be more of a euphemism, which usually just means you have stepped away from your potential conflicts of interests and is simply an informal style, although I dare say some might formalize it and hire a Trustee proper or just simply resign as a director on Companies House and transfer the shares/ directorship/investments to someone else's name, such as one's spouse.

What Sunak seems to be claiming as per Investopedia is:

Conversely, a blind trust is designed so that the trust beneficiaries and the trustor have no knowledge of the investment holdings within the trust. Neither party has any control or say in how the investments are managed, including whether to buy or sell specific securities.

But given Sunak would have known beforehand what investments were held and the ‘trustee’ he has appointed to run his affairs whilst he is a government minister, I am sceptical it is truly blind, as he refuses to reveal the name of this ‘trustee’. There is no supervision by parliament over this generic designation and one has to suspect the aim is to conceal, as he could just as equally be completely transparent about his business interests, being a public servant in high office, whilst still ‘stepping away’ from them.

 

[Vixen]

Looking at the video, I cannot read the plate at all.

FWIW, a 2014/15 car would have either 14 or 64 as the 3rd and 4th digits, 2015/16 would be 15 or 65, and 2016/17 would be 16 or 66

https://www.nationalnumbers.co.uk/dvla-guide/year-of-issue-149.htm



Of course it could. As Mark Corrigan has pointed out, it could be a personalized plate (vanity plate) where the numbers may have some significance to the owner.

ETA: I think I have confirmed it is a personalised plate, because that number is not available for purchase (E12EFL, E16EFL, E17EFL ad E19EFL are available)

https://dvlaregistrations.dvla.gov....Search&super=&super_pricefrom=&super_priceto=

But people say it is a 2014 Range Rover Sport because of the numberplate as per DVLA.

 

[Vixen]

Thanks. That might fit quite nicely into a timeline where your 2014 car gets incinerated in October '23 and the insurance takes a while to pay out but when it does you get a replacement 2016 car and switch your retained cherished plate over to it.

Smart Cooky confirms the numberplate in that video can't be read, so the person claiming it was that aforesaid number was just guessing.

 

[Vixen]

You surely know this is a stupid argument, right?

There is a video of the vehicle from the rear. If that video is consistent with a Sport of the proper year, then that is evidence that the vehicle is a Sport and perhaps also of the same year.

Now, I have no opinion about whether it's a Sport or not, because I don't know anything about that model and the exact model of the vehicle doesn't matter to me. But your, oh, let's say, reasoning is crap unless there is only one 2014 Sport registered in the UK.

No. the widely circulated video of the car rear shows a much abbreviated numberplate of about four digits, is the common perception so would not match a six-digit one. Most people seem to think it is an Evoque because of its appearance.

The only reason a 2104 RR Sport was mentioned IMV was to rule out any type of EV.

 

[Vixen]

So yet another car park fire. Seem to be coming an everyday occurrence.

A fire officer called to a blaze at a car dealership says it might have been started by an electric vehicle.

Lee Alford, station manager at Avon and Fire Rescue Service, said crews have "reason to believe" it was started by an EV, but added that investigations were ongoing and no conclusions had been reached yet.

A major road was closed in north Bristol when the fire began at the Drive Vauxhall Bristol North premises off Gloucester Road in Patchway at about 10:00 BST.

Mr Alford said at least 25 cars were involved and the fire service believed the fire was "accidental". The dealership has confirmed nobody was injured.

BBC


The dealership is Vauxhall, so OK to mention the brand in this case.

 

[Mojo]

There are different types of trust. The most common type in the UK would probably come under Wealth Management, in which an accountant will set up trusts to ring fence against taxes, most specifically Inheritance Tax (for example, for the provision of children's education or for when they come of age) or if someone wins a very large sum of money, they might hire a Wealth Management accountant to do this type of tax avoidance stuff. My area was more to do with Trustees in Bankruptcy and that type of Trustee is done via a petition in the High Court.

That seems to be unlikely to be relevant here: see Erskine May.

 

[Vixen]

That seems to be unlikely to be relevant here: see Erskine May.

I was pointing out the principles of a trustee arrangement. Whatever the facts of the matter are, Sunak's financial interests are not available so we can only guess at the Tata-JLR relationship. For now we just have to guess at why the make model and year of the vehicle involved at Luton can't be revealed.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Smart Cooky confirms the numberplate in that video can't be read, so the person claiming it was that aforesaid number was just guessing.

You're assuming that video is the source of the information about what the number plate was. I recognise you found some guy on xitter claiming that video was his source, but that (and he) is not necessarily where the information really came from.

I don't know where the information came from but it is a neat fit for the facts available and not contradicted as I briefly thought yesterday.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So yet another car park fire. Seem to be coming an everyday occurrence.

BBC

Another parked car fire, you mean. And yes, car fires are an everyday occurrence.

We must await the forthcoming updates on the make, model and year of the car which started the fire. So far we can't exclude other brands from being parked at that dealership.

 

[smartcooky]

Smart Cooky confirms the numberplate in that video can't be read, so the person claiming it was that aforesaid number was just guessing.

Complete misrepresentation.... as usual

I said I couldn't read it - that doesn't mean others could not

I also do not have access to the original video, which may be more clear (this one is clearly compressed for youtube upload)

You really do lie a lot!

 

[smartcooky]

Smart Cooky confirms the numberplate in that video can't be read, so the person claiming it was that aforesaid number was just guessing.

And STOP MISSPELLING MY USERNAME. You have been told about this before... so you must be doing it intentionally

 

[smartcooky]

No. the widely circulated video of the car rear shows a much abbreviated numberplate of about four digits, is the common perception so would not match a six-digit one. Most people seem to think it is an Evoque because of its appearance.

The only reason a 2104 RR Sport was mentioned IMV was to rule out any type of EV.

It is, a Range Rover, you have been shown this before. Why do you continue to lie!!