Cont: The Biden Presidency (4)

Biden stops delivery of Bombs to Israel.
I ..for now..support this move, I simply don;t think from a cold blooded military view point the Isreali tactics are working, and the Rafeh attacks seem to be a move by Bibi to avpid
creiticism over his handling of the war.
IMHO we will not get anything more then a shaky ceasefire until both Bibi and Hamas are gone.
 
The recent announcement that Biden has delayed Military shipments to Israel has sparked an important question: Who should Biden support? Israel or Palestine? Both somehow? Neither?
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
The recent announcement that Biden has delayed Military shipments to Israel has sparked an important question: Who should Biden support? Israel or Palestine? Both somehow? Neither?
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He should support the Palestinians who are willing to live in peace with Israelis and the Israelis who are willing to live in peace with Palestinians. He should not support the Palestinians who are not willing to live in peace with Israelis, or the Israelis who are not willing to live in peace with Palestinians.

Not sure why this is so complicated.
 
Random said:
He should support the Palestinians who are willing to live in peace with Israelis and the Israelis who are willing to live in peace with Palestinians. He should not support the Palestinians who are not willing to live in peace with Israelis, or the Israelis who are not willing to live in peace with Palestinians.

Not sure why this is so complicated.
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It's the Middle East?
 
Regnad Kcin said:
It's the Middle East?
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It's not just that it's the Middle East, of course. By the look of it, Biden is trying to support the peaceful part of both sides. Israel and Palestine are not under the US' direct control, though, and those who consider themselves to benefit from conflict have managed to get themselves into control on both sides of the conflict. Once we've given aid, there's distinct limits to how much the US can influence its usage. Taking down Hamas is a good usage of aid. Genocide of civilians is not. Much military aid has been given on the premise that it will be used for the former, but a bit too much of the latter is in evidence. That state of affairs has brought us to the gradually increasing pressure being put on Israel to do more of the former and less of the latter with the leverage actually at our disposal. Hence the pause in some aid, now.
 
Nominated both of these:

Random said:
He should support the Palestinians who are willing to live in peace with Israelis and the Israelis who are willing to live in peace with Palestinians. He should not support the Palestinians who are not willing to live in peace with Israelis, or the Israelis who are not willing to live in peace with Palestinians.

Not sure why this is so complicated.
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Aridas said:
It's not just that it's the Middle East, of course. By the look of it, Biden is trying to support the peaceful part of both sides. Israel and Palestine are not under the US' direct control, though, and those who consider themselves to benefit from conflict have managed to get themselves into control on both sides of the conflict. Once we've given aid, there's distinct limits to how much the US can influence its usage. Taking down Hamas is a good usage of aid. Genocide of civilians is not. Much military aid has been given on the premise that it will be used for the former, but a bit too much of the latter is in evidence. That state of affairs has brought us to the gradually increasing pressure being put on Israel to do more of the former and less of the latter with the leverage actually at our disposal. Hence the pause in some aid, now.
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Aridas said:
By the look of it, Biden is trying to support the peaceful part of both sides.
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By sending weapons to one side to use against the other side (when the former has clearly stated that their attacks would have to end soon if the stream of weapons from the USA were to stop).

That's not anywhere near trying for peace. It's simple, straightforward support of one side's attacks on the other side.
 
Delvo said:
By sending weapons to one side to use against the other side (when the former has clearly stated that their attacks would have to end soon if the stream of weapons from the USA were to stop).

That's not anywhere near trying for peace. It's simple, straightforward support of one side's attacks on the other side.
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This more immediate conflict started with Hamas proving itself to be *very* uninterested in peace, yet again, to put it nicely. With Hamas in control and preventing any peaceful means of power transfer, there's little hope for actual peace or for those Palestinians who want peace to have a meaningful voice. Israel is problematic, but much better in that those who want peace actually have a voice and there are peaceful means for them to obtain leadership.

As noted after what you quoted, military aid used against Hamas is being used as intended. Given Hamas' terrorism and disregard for the rules of war, civilians being caught up in that is unavoidable, sadly, and that's on Hamas for creating that situation. Indiscriminate genocide is not acceptable, though, and Israel's been going too far in that direction, which has led to the gradually increasing pressure on Israel to stop engaging in such tactics.
 
Civilians aren't being caught up in attacks on Hamas. The civilians are the target. The I"D"F is Hamas with a different cultural background and more power.
 
Delvo said:
Civilians aren't being caught up in attacks on Hamas. The civilians are the target. The I"D"F is Hamas with a different cultural background and more power.
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Maybe, maybe not when it comes to the IDF. I'm not going to debate that much here. The fact remains that Hamas' terrorism and disregard for the rules of war serve as a very real shield against what would be clear wrongdoings committed by the IDF if Hamas had been followed the rules of war.

Hamas instigated this conflict. Hamas is continuing to hold hostages to keep things going despite the chance for returning to a ceasefire if they finally returned the hostages. Hamas is committing war crimes as a matter of course, including disguising soldiers as civilians and then using civilian structures for military purposes as they attack the IDF.

Yes, the IDF is fairly certainly being bad in a number of ways, but Hamas' bad actions give them plenty of at least superficial cover and cause, which they certainly seem to be taking advantage of.
 
Aridas said:
Hamas instigated this conflict.
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Of course, because nothing at all happened in the Middle East before everybody who's there now just popped into existence last October. Everybody knows that.

But why was pointing out that fact your response to my comment that Biden is not at all trying for peace but actually doing the opposite?
 
Delvo said:
Of course, because nothing at all happened in the Middle East before everybody who's there now just popped into existence last October. Everybody knows that.
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As a small warning, if you're to excuse Hamas' actual actions, you're traveling into very dangerous territory.

Delvo said:
But why was pointing out that fact your response to my comment that Biden is not at all trying for peace but actually doing the opposite?
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Perhaps you should reread? That wasn't my response to you saying that Biden is not trying for peace, and the immediate context for that quote should keep the actual usage reasonably clear. You're welcome to address my actual response, of course, but misrepresenting what I said does you no favors.

With that said, do you believe that Hamas is interested in actual peace with Israel?
 
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Biden continies trumpian protectionist policies at least till election, so we can't have cheap Chinese electric cars.
BYD sells the Seagull, also called the Dolphin Mini, in four Latin American countries for about $21,000. The higher price includes transportation and reflects higher profits possible in less cutthroat markets than China.

BYD told the AP last year it is “still in the process” of deciding whether to sell autos in the U.S. It is weighing factory sites in Mexico for the Mexican market.

The company isn’t selling cars in the U.S. largely due to 27.5% tariffs on the sale price of Chinese vehicles when they arrive. Donald Trump slapped on the bulk of the tariff, 25%, when he was president, and it was kept in place under Joe Biden. Trump contends that the rise of EVs backed by Biden will cost U.S. factory jobs, sending the work to China.

Some members of Congress are urging Biden to ban imports of Chinese vehicles altogether, including those made in Mexico by Chinese companies that now would come in largely without tariffs.
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https://news.yahoo.com/tech/small-well-built-chinese-ev-055434766.html
 
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Delvo said:
:rolleyes:
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*shrug* It's you who misrepresented what was said, not me.

Delvo said:
What Israel's doing to Palestinians has nothing to do with Hamas, except as a dishonest excuse.
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Quite a bold and indefensible claim. There certainly are complexities to the situation that are of varying relevance for different purposes, with Israel certainly bearing many sins as well, but trying to claim that Hamas is irrelevant to what's going on is just mindbogglingly removed from reality. As is denying their agency.
 
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Random said:
He should support the Palestinians who are willing to live in peace with Israelis and the Israelis who are willing to live in peace with Palestinians. He should not support the Palestinians who are not willing to live in peace with Israelis, or the Israelis who are not willing to live in peace with Palestinians.

Not sure why this is so complicated.
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The problem is that too many western countries have been supporting Israel for too long, no matter what they got up to. It gave Israel a sense of impunity and immunity for whatever war crimes and crimes against humanity it wanted to commit.

It's hard to come back from such a mistake.
 
Aridas said:
This more immediate conflict started with Hamas proving itself to be *very* uninterested in peace, yet again, to put it nicely. With Hamas in control and preventing any peaceful means of power transfer, there's little hope for actual peace or for those Palestinians who want peace to have a meaningful voice. Israel is problematic, but much better in that those who want peace actually have a voice and there are peaceful means for them to obtain leadership.

As noted after what you quoted, military aid used against Hamas is being used as intended. Given Hamas' terrorism and disregard for the rules of war, civilians being caught up in that is unavoidable, sadly, and that's on Hamas for creating that situation. Indiscriminate genocide is not acceptable, though, and Israel's been going too far in that direction, which has led to the gradually increasing pressure on Israel to stop engaging in such tactics.
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Given that Israel has been funding Hamas from its inception until at least 2019, to give themselves an excuse for not being an honest negotiator with the PLO, that's a case of sowing the dragon's teeth.

And if Hamas were never interested in peace, neither is Israel who are the very definition of "they would make a desert and then call it peace".
 
Just like the US, Israel is suffering from Exceptionalism, meaning that neither one is even capable of seeing itself through the eyes of others.

Because of that, Biden's attempt to help Palestinians and curtail Israels Invasion are probably doomed.
 
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