Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[Vixen]

You also said:

...and:

Did you note the word 'possibly'...? Every word has a meaning.

 

[Vixen]

Ministerial code section 7.3

On appointment to each new office, Ministers must provide
their Permanent Secretary with a full list in writing of all interests
which might be thought to give rise to a conflict. The list should also cover interests of the Minister’s spouse or partner and close
family which might be thought to give rise to a conflict.

I see a contradiction here which I put down to someone plucking a claim directly from their arse.

Fair point.

But see here:

Prime minister says he held on to his US residency until 2021 only because he had not got around to revoking it

Sunak failed to properly declare his wife’s interest in a childcare firm that stood to benefit from government policy.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen,

I want to be sure I understand what you are saying about the Luton fire.

I think you've said that it started with a thermal runaway. What sorts of engines have thermal runaways? That is, are any internal combustion engines susceptible to thermal runaways, or must it be an EV or hybrid of some sort?

(I'm only asking about commercially available passenger automobiles, if that helps.)

Thanks.

There are MHEV's, PHEV's and full EV's. The hybrids can combine either diesel or petrol. Anything with a lithium ion battery can have a thermal runaway. See here for example of what an electric bike one looks like. https://youtu.be/wxr1iXEf9lY?si=K9qPj-GNV7xzYU6A

ICE engine-only cars do not suffer thermal runaway as they do not have lithium-ion car batteries.

 

[Vixen]

UK Ministerial Code, Chapter 7, Sections 7.1-7.4:

7. Ministers’ private interests

General principle

7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.

Responsibility for avoiding a conflict

7.2 It is the personal responsibility of each Minister to decide whether and what action is needed to avoid a conflict or the perception of a conflict, taking account of advice received from their Permanent Secretary and the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ interests.

Procedure

7.3 On appointment to each new office, Ministers must provide their Permanent Secretary with a full list in writing of all interests which might be thought to give rise to a conflict. The list should also cover interests of the Minister’s spouse or partner and close family which might be thought to give rise to a conflict.

7.4 Where appropriate, the Minister will meet the Permanent Secretary and the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ interests to agree action on the handling of interests. Ministers must record in writing what action has been taken, and provide the Permanent Secretary and the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ interests with a copy of that record.​

[qimg]https://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/17060474efd47d7e6b.jpg[/qimg]

ETA: Beaten to the punch by Jack

Ok fair enough. However, the spouse is not compelled to follow the ministerial code. Much of it is based on the principle of being 'honourable' yet time and again we see Right Honourable members lining their pockets rarely facing any consequences when caught out

.

 

[Vixen]

Avoiding the question which was about your suggestion ordinary people did not use coins when the saying "Where there's much there's brass" arose.

Brass is of course a reference to copper coins which were introduced to England in the 1600s. A quick Google suggests a skilled labourer might earn 8 to 12 pence per day, and the smallest denomination was the farthing (originally a quarter of a cut-up penny but by this stage a coin in its own right). The idea that England was a nation of Baldrics saving up their turnips to try to get enough to have a penny of their very own is not reality.

A farmhand was very different from a tenant farmer but if you want to talk history, please do start a new thread.

 

[Mojo]

Vixen,

I want to be sure I understand what you are saying about the Luton fire.

I think you've said that it started with a thermal runaway. What sorts of engines have thermal runaways? That is, are any internal combustion engines susceptible to thermal runaways, or must it be an EV or hybrid of some sort?

(I'm only asking about commercially available passenger automobiles, if that helps.)

Thanks.

There are MHEV's, PHEV's and full EV's. The hybrids can combine either diesel or petrol. Anything with a lithium ion battery can have a thermal runaway. See here for example of what an electric bike one looks like. https://youtu.be/wxr1iXEf9lY?si=K9qPj-GNV7xzYU6A

ICE engine-only cars do not suffer thermal runaway as they do not have lithium-ion car batteries.

https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/news/fire-airport-car-park-started-accidentally

The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle.

 

[Mojo]

Did you note the word 'possibly'...? Every word has a meaning.

Yes, words have meaning. And the words that you have posted in this thread have persistently implied corruption. For example:

Much of it is based on the principle of being 'honourable' yet time and again we see Right Honourable members lining their pockets rarely facing any consequences when caught out

.

 

[Vixen]

If only he had listened to the dogma of evidence based medicine he might not have died by other people's thinking.

He had pancreatic cancer so being the intellectual that he was, he looked death in the face. But his comment really was a reference to not just following dogma handed down.

 

[jimbob]

For someone who claims not to be a conspiracy theorist, you sure as hell tick a lot of these boxes....

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g3aomiv90tyno6txybwqw/CTBingo.png?rlkey=xxsqthskd2rsknm84kcqxyb1k&raw=1[/qimg]

...and not just in this thread!!!
‎
‎

This is very simple. Find a single newspaper or broadcaster that confirms from official sources the make and model of the vehicle involved.

Can't find anything?

There's your press embargo.

Column N rows 1 and 3

 

[Vixen]

But what could a good investigative journalist do, according to you they are not allowed to report anything because of an "embargo".

There are plenty of unofficial stories about all kinds of thing going around and people are free to say what they like within the law. However, people will expect verification for a thing to become a fact and that is the difficult hurdle.

 

[Mojo]

He had pancreatic cancer so being the intellectual that he was, he looked death in the face. But his comment really was a reference to not just following dogma handed down.

What is the "dogma handed down" that you are accusing people of following?

 

[Vixen]

What is the "dogma handed down" that you are accusing people of following?

The one that claims we MUST accept the foregone conclusion as handed down on Day One at 10:00am, even though the investigation has only just started!

 

[Mojo]

The one that claims we MUST accept the foregone conclusion as handed down on Day One at 10:00am, even though the investigation has only just started!

Nobody is saying that.

It is, though, remarkably similar to the position you took in the Estonia threads, when you insisted that the initial reports were the most reliable.

 

[Vixen]

Nobody is saying that.

It is, though, remarkably similar to the position you took in the Estonia threads, when you insisted that the initial reports were the most reliable.

If you are talking about eye witnesses, here, too, eye witnesses are important. For example the Romanian lady who took the video of what looks exactly like a thermal runaway and the other chap who gave us the exact time the fire moved up to the roof. Why do you think police ask for eye witnesses to crimes and accidents? Come on, Mojo, you can't be that obdurate.

 

[Mojo]

If you are talking about eye witnesses, here, too, eye witnesses are important.

No, you were talking about the initial newspaper reports.

But, as I said, nobody has taken the position that "we MUST accept the foregone conclusion as handed down on Day One at 10:00am, even though the investigation has only just started!"

Seriously, people have repeatedly cited a press release from over 5 months after "Day One". You know, the one you are desperately trying to ignore?

Your "dogma handed down" is your own invention.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

This is very simple. Find a single newspaper or broadcaster that confirms from official sources the make and model of the vehicle involved.



Can't find anything?



There's your press embargo.

So there was a press embargo at the Liverpool fire too. I think if we look we might find there's a press embargo in close to a majority of news stories all over the world. And what about the thousands of car fires they don't even report at all? This conspiracy goes deeper than anyone except Vixen realised.

 

[smartcooky]

This is very simple. Find a single newspaper or broadcaster that confirms from official sources the make and model of the vehicle involved.

Can't find anything?

There's your press embargo.

Your evidence is that there is no evidence?

Ever heard of circular logic?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

There are plenty of unofficial stories about all kinds of thing going around and people are free to say what they like within the law. However, people will expect verification for a thing to become a fact and that is the difficult hurdle.

But what would your investigative journalist say within the law if the story is embargoed?

Your fantasy is a magical power of embargo with which the prime minister gags the press, forces the fire service to lie about fire safety and perhaps also the police to conceal motoring offences, all in order to enrich himself in obvious breach of his code of conduct.

Can you do better than your attempt to make up bits of ministerial code by at least showing evidence this superembargo power actually exists?

 

[SteveAitch]

...
Can you do better than your attempt to make up bits of ministerial code by at least showing evidence this superembargo power actually exists?

Well... I suppose he could try for a super-injunction. But I suspect it would be difficult to get and if he did, it's always possible (probable?) that some stroppy MP would bring it out under Parliamentary privilege.

 

[Darat]

He had pancreatic cancer so being the intellectual that he was, he looked death in the face. But his comment really was a reference to not just following dogma handed down.

As usual you are simply wrong, he believed in magical thinking and followed the dogma and buried his head in the sand. He did anything but "looked death in the face".