Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[phiwum]

Here is a typical job description for a regional chief fire officer:

https://www.rbfrs.co.uk/app/uploads/2022/09/Chief-Fire-Officer-job-description.pdf

It is quite detailed so you need to look at it for the full outline. However, it is apparent that plenty of communication with politicians and elected members such as councillors is required, so the idea Mr. Hopkinson did not need to consult with the appropriate government ministers is misconceived, especially in such a serious incident such as that. Imagine how much worse it could have been if someone had left their kids or pets waiting in the car or people could not escape on time.

Yes, government ministers would remind the fire official of things like kids or pets waiting in cars. Because, after all, government ministers know more about how to respond to a fire than those who respond to fires do.

 

[phiwum]

As soon as 'critical incident' declared.

I thought it was a major incident.

 

[phiwum]

There has only been one press release.

So someone put Hopkinson's words into 'plain English' and people think it is an update.

Here's the initial statement:

We don’t believe it was an electric vehicle. It’s believed to be diesel-powered, at this stage all subject to verification.

Here's the latest release:

The vehicle involved was diesel-powered – it was not a mild hybrid, plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle.

This is not just simplification. First, to remove "we think" and "pending verification" is not simplification. It is obfuscation unless it is an update. It expresses more certainty than the initial statement.

Second, it gives more information. Where the first statement would be literally true (if maybe misleading) were the car a hybrid, the second statement explicitly says that it is not a hybrid at all.

This is not a "plain English" rewrite. It is an update. It gives two new bits of information. First, the confidence in the claim that the vehicle is diesel powered has increased and second, it was not a hybrid.

 

[phiwum]

No, what happens in crisis management is that a crisis management team is formed and a talking heads team is formed to decide what information they are going to give out to the press and how they are going to handle the communications side. The statement is composed and then circulated, with each member of the team suggesting edits, corrections and insertions. This team might well include a legal bod lawyer and in the case of a serious fire will have the advice of the police as to what can and cannot be said until further investigation.

The idea that Mr. Hopkinson jotted his notes whilst eating his breakfast and then ad libbed is laughable.

You have given no evidence that this is how reports made during or immediately after a major fire event are written. This is just how you imagine it.

 

[smartcooky]

There is no conspiracy theory. It is all in your mind.

You're projecting again!

 

[smartcooky]

I have not said it was a conspiracy.

Really? Read on then

It is a fact that the Prime Minister has given Tata, the 100% owners of Jaguar Land Rover, hundreds of millions of taxpayer money as a 'subsidy' to build car batteries and EV's. This is factual, not mythical. None of the press has confirmed it was a JLR vehicle involved in the Luton fire, together with an insistence on Day One it was a diesel car fire. Thus it is obviously propaganda spin and a press embargo. It is a matter of fact that the Prime Minister's wife's father is a close acquaintance of Mr. Tata. It is also a fact that the Prime Minister has declined to let UK taxpayers know how much he has handed Tata of UK taxpayer money as a non-refundable grant.

What exactly is the conspiracy theory?

Exactly everything you are saying in this very post. You are putting forward a theory implying that all of the yellow highlighted people or organizations are taking part in a conspiracy to hide the truth from the public

You have just outed yourself!!
‎
‎

 

[catsmate]

You are aware that not all EU countries use the same font, right?

Part of my job is literally looking at number plates from all over the world, including the EU, and the EU does not have a standardised font.

FE-Schrift for example is used in only 6 countries in the EU.

The UK, which if you recall is where Luton is, not only uses a different font, but does allow some minor variations in the font used by people.

Fascinating, thank you.

 

[catsmate]

I'm accurately describing your behaviour.

Care to deal with the fact that you were wrong about the EU standardising the font of VRM plates?

Like she was wrong about her "experts"? Wrong about the frequency of faked plates?
Not a chance.

 

[catsmate]

I have not said it was a conspiracy. It is a fact that the Prime Minister has given Tata, the 100% owners of Jaguar Land Rover, hundreds of millions of taxpayer money as a 'subsidy' to build car batteries and EV's. This is factual, not mythical. None of the press has confirmed it was a JLR vehicle involved in the Luton fire, together with an insistence on Day One it was a diesel car fire. Thus it is obviously propaganda spin and a press embargo. It is a matter of fact that the Prime Minister's wife's father is a close acquaintance of Mr. Tata. It is also a fact that the Prime Minister has declined to let UK taxpayers know how much he has handed Tata of UK taxpayer money as a non-refundable grant.

What exactly is the conspiracy theory?

You've lying again. Te initial vehicle in the Luton airport carpark fire was a diesel ICE.
You've spouting childish, conspiratorial drivel.

 

[catsmate]

I thought it was a major incident.

It was, Vixen is wrong as usual.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I was referring to the number of digits in a numberplate which have to be a standardised size. So a six-digit numberplate will, on the same vehicle, look longer than a four-digit one.

********. You're lying again. You were trying to prop up your deep fake claim by asserting that "They" messed up the dimensions of the plate, the same way "They" misaligned the hood, and got the slope of the floor wrong.

You say fire investigators quote a RR Sport 2014. Can you provide the citation, please.

Please point to where I said that.

You're just trying to shift the burden of proof again.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I comprehended well that the purpose of the figure in full was to apply a shiny gloss to the underlayer of a car park being burnt down. It wasn't even relevant.

No, you don't comprehend at all that the figure provided was to show just how common car fires are. That you interpreted it as a claim that 19,000 parking garages burn in Britain every year is just another example of your poor reading comprehension.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Q.E.D. you believe any question mark over any EV is a sign of a conspiracy theory because to you it is all about ideology. The idea of the fire at Luton being started by a thermal runaway is something that deeply offends your ideological principles and you think it is an attack on EV's.

********. I want EVs to be scrutinized for safety just like any other machine.

You're not "just asking questions", you're JAQing. Every question you ask is designed to lead you to the conclusion that "They" are hiding the truth from the public. Whenever one of your questions has an answer that doesn't support your pet conspiracy theory, you reject it or ignore it. You assert falsehood after falsehood, and when you are corrected you refuse to admit you were wrong. And you make accusations for which you have no supporting evidence. That is why I, and everyone else in this thread and most of your other threads, label you a conspiracy theorist.

Has it occurred to you it is quite possible to be wholly objective about the cause of a fire without taking one ideological side or the other?

What ideological sides are there? What ideology am I supporting when I point out that diesel can be ignited with a match? What ideology am I supporting when I point out the impossibility of using that photograph to determine that the floor is sloping a different direction?

The way people seized on Andrew Hopkinson's words that 'It is believed to be a diesel' as being vindication was just insane!

Who has done that? Seriously, WTF are you on about. You're the one who seized on that. Your reaction has been so insane that when he later said it was definitely a diesel (and said it a loooooong time later than "a day or so"), you pretended for quite some time that the second statement wasn't even made. The only insane thing has been your reaction to being asked what evidence you have to justify rejecting the statements of fire investigators.

Even to the extent of someone producing a deep fake video to fake a numberplate showing it could not possibly be an EV of any sort.

Could you speak up? I couldn't hear you over the deafening roar of irony caused by you protesting about being called a conspiracy theorist and then writing the above sentence.

You have no evidence to support your deep fake fantasy. Your attempts to do so have only succeeded is demonstrating your own ignorance. But you'll never admit error, because like virtually every conspiracy theorist I've ever encountered, you think admitting error is an admission of stupidity. Conspiracy theorists think that intelligence is just something that people have, and that it manifests by always knowing everything. They don't understand that intelligence is something that has to be earned by replacing ignorance and false beliefs with hard-won information. The difference between smart and stupid isn't knowing and not knowing. The actual difference between smart and stupid is knowing you can be wrong and refusing to admit you are wrong. It isn't encountering something you didn't know that makes you stupid, it's refusing to admit that you have anything to learn in the first place.

 

[catsmate]

I was referring to the number of digits in a numberplate which have to be a standardised size. So a six-digit numberplate will, on the same vehicle, look longer than a four-digit one. You say fire investigators quote a RR Sport 2014. Can you provide the citation, please.

Utter nonsense.

 

[catsmate]

So Vixen, where are your "many experts"?

 

[Mojo]

You say fire investigators quote a RR Sport 2014.

I've searched this thread, and it's two predecessors, for posts by Foster Zygote containing the word "sport", and I can confirm that what you say here is not true.

 

[Vixen]

Here's the initial statement:


Here's the latest release:


This is not just simplification. First, to remove "we think" and "pending verification" is not simplification. It is obfuscation unless it is an update. It expresses more certainty than the initial statement.

Second, it gives more information. Where the first statement would be literally true (if maybe misleading) were the car a hybrid, the second statement explicitly says that it is not a hybrid at all.

This is not a "plain English" rewrite. It is an update. It gives two new bits of information. First, the confidence in the claim that the vehicle is diesel powered has increased and second, it was not a hybrid.

It's plain English for the website - has been from day one. Got fed up of journalists enquiring about the nature of the vehicle so expanded what was meant by 'electric'. That is all.

Come the six-month mark some journalists enquired as to when was the report out (as this was the time frame of the Liverpool ECHO one). 'In the summer' was the vague management of expectations comment. So suddenly all these journalists presented it as new information, headline news. Including the opinion of an AA boff, the most likely cause was an electrical fault in the engine bay...which he already said on day one.


Fake news, peeps!

 

[Vixen]

Really? Read on then



Exactly everything you are saying in this very post. You are putting forward a theory implying that all of the yellow highlighted people or organizations are taking part in a conspiracy to hide the truth from the public

You have just outed yourself!!
‎
‎

I am afraid it is what British politicians do and have done for quite a few years, now, and quite shamelessly, too.

 

[zooterkin]

I am afraid it is what British politicians do and have done for quite a few years, now, and quite shamelessly, too.

But you have not a shred of evidence that they are involved in the Luton airport car park fire at all.

The car was a diesel.

 

[zooterkin]

It's plain English for the website - has been from day one. Got fed up of journalists enquiring about the nature of the vehicle so expanded what was meant by 'electric'. That is all.

Come the six-month mark some journalists enquired as to when was the report out (as this was the time frame of the Liverpool ECHO one). 'In the summer' was the vague management of expectations comment. So suddenly all these journalists presented it as new information, headline news. Including the opinion of an AA boff, the most likely cause was an electrical fault in the engine bay...which he already said on day one.


Fake news, peeps!

Well, that's a good summary of most of your posts in this thread, at least. Why do you lie?