Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[MBDK]

And your explanation for the lack of an obvious exhaust pipe in the video..?

Because neither of them would be visible due to their placement on the auto and the lack of illumination of the back of the vehicle.

 

[smartcooky]

It's almost comical the way you assume that no one could have access to more information than you have.

But this is what conspiracy theorists do (Column B, Row 2) - and Vixen has previous!!

They source-shop for bits of information that will fit their pre-determined conclusions (Column N, Row 4) and ignore any they find that do not (Column G, Row 2). Usually, but not always, those sources are dubious sources and are often also conspiracy theorists themselves.

When confronted with evidence they don't want to see, they pretend it doesn't exist (Column G, Row 2) by refusing to address it (Column I, Row 2).

Example, I posted this earlier

In both cases, the car on the right is a 2014 Range Rover Sport

Top photos:
1. The sidelight / air intake clusters are identical.
2. The headlight shape and its positional relationship to the front mudguard flare shape are identical.
3. The bottom air intake position in relation to 1. above are identical

Bottom photos: I couldn't find a photo with the exact angle as the burning car. This photo is taken slightly to the right and above where the burning car photo was taken from.
4. The taillight clusters are identical.

In a quick look on Google images for other views of other makes and models of SUVs, I could not find any other make or model that had anything remotely resembling this collection of identical features.

For sure, the 2015-2019 Range Rover looks very similar (2020 have LED taillight clusters , and 2013 have different taillights altogether)

It is my opinion that the burning car IS a 2014 to 2019 Range Rover, and given that the number plate came back to a 2014 model, its pretty damned conclusive that's what it is!

Did Vixen respond by addressing any of the points I made? Nope - those points were handwaved away. Instead, her response was...

And your explanation for the lack of an obvious exhaust pipe in the video..?

... as if an absence of evidence was in any way significant.

I could also point out..

Does the lack of an obvious left hand sidelight cluster mean the car didn't have one?

Does the lack of an obvious left hand headlight mean the car didn't have one?

Does the lack of obvious driver and passenger door handles mean the car didn't have any?

Does the lack of an obvious left wing-mirror mean the car didn't have one?

And its worth pointing out a couple of extra inconvenient facts for the benefit of Vixen.

1. In the top right photo (the rear view of the red car), even in a professionally taken photo for a motoring magazine, taken in broad daylight, the left hand exhaust pipe is hardly visible at all - what chance seeing it in a smoke-filled building?

2. There is no such thing as a 2014 Range Rover EV. Land Rover will be released their first ever fully electric Range Rover this year
https://media.landrover.com/news/20...ver-electric-now-open-prototype-testing-phase

3. 2014 was the first Range Rover PHEV, but both its sidelight/air intake clusters and its taillights are vastly different from the 2014 Sport Diesel.

To summarize, the vehicle in the burning car photos is clearly, and obviously a 2014 - 2019 Range Rover. There is NO QUESTION about that. Given that it is not EV because there was no Range Rover EV until this year, and given it is not PHEV or an MHEV because, even though there were 2014 - 2019 models of these, they have obviously different sidelight and taillight configurations from the burning car, then it MUST be a 2014-2019 Range Rover Sport - Diesel or Petrol.

Time to stop digging Vixen!!
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[Jack by the hedge]

The first appearance was in a brand new twitter account. Nobody knows who is responsible and nobody has bothered to find out.

The first place you saw it was a new Twitter account. You don't know who took the video. You assume nobody else knows either. Got it.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

do vanity plates really cost 10s of thousands of pounds? He in Oregon, they're 50 bucks

There's a restricted supply and a free market in prices. They can cost hundreds. Rarely thousands. You can only buy a plate which was previously issued and is not currently registered to a car. So that very much limits any chance of spelling out a message or a name and much of the market is for 80+ year old plates in the format of 3 letters and a number. The DVLA who reissued them realised traders were buying desirable plates up, saw the value of this scarce resource they're sitting on, and will now charge a serious amount for, say, your 3 initials and single digit number.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

For goodness sake, this is how it looks just five or six days ago:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53694824313_c0a514d705_c.jpg[/qimg]Screenshot 2024-05-02 010108 by Username Vixen, on Flickr

Image reproduced for educational purposes.

Do you really believe Hopkinson managed to get the cause confirmed the same morning?

As has already been pointed out he did not confirm on that morning that it was a diesel.

Most of the cars have been removed. Most of the building has been demolished. The fact that some cars remain indicates there's no simple way to recover them but that doesn't mean people can't get to them, only that a recovery truck can't drive to them. Burned out cars are a low priority anyway, it's not as if they're going to be repaired.

All this is moot when you have the driver of the car, the CCTV of the car entering the car park, the records of the car he owns and they all describe the same diesel car.

 

[Agatha]

There's a restricted supply and a free market in prices. They can cost hundreds. Rarely thousands. You can only buy a plate which was previously issued and is not currently registered to a car. So that very much limits any chance of spelling out a message or a name and much of the market is for 80+ year old plates in the format of 3 letters and a number. The DVLA who reissued them realised traders were buying desirable plates up, saw the value of this scarce resource they're sitting on, and will now charge a serious amount for, say, your 3 initials and single digit number.

I looked up similar plates to the E10 EFL which has been suggested as the plate of the vehicle in the video on a couple of different resale sites (by putting in random characters and two digit numbers) E10 FEF - £319. R11 SLD - £895. K16 MHL - £553. Rarely does a number of LNN LLL go over £1000.

But if you want a plate saying something like N1 GEL, that will cost several thousands of pounds (that one isn't currently available).

 

[Vixen]

Is that the location of the car that started the fire?

Someone has obviously gone in, they took a photo

As Hopkinson said on Day One, only half of the car park was involved in the blaze. It follows that the 60% dismantled so far is the part that wasn't too dangerous to do so. Ditto the 900 or so cars now salvaged.

 

[Vixen]

Followed later by:

Which is it Vixen, is the car park too dangerous for anyone to go in and identify the car in question or has 60% of the car park been dismantled and 3/4 of the cars been removed by salvage experts?

Both your statements cannot be true. They are mutually exclusive.

If you're going to respond, please just answer the question.

See above.

But our hope lies in Jimbob, who will just nip along and have a quick look at the Tdi.

...Assuming he can find any stairs or floor to gain access.

 

[Vixen]

Because neither of them would be visible due to their placement on the auto and the lack of illumination of the back of the vehicle.

Like Picture #14 here: https://www.nettiauto.com/land-rover/range-rover-sport/13534613 ?

How do you know it is a RR Sport 2014 and not a later model or an Evoque (which many people have identified) one person on Reddit thinks it is a Mercedes?

 

[Vixen]

But this is what conspiracy theorists do (Column B, Row 2) - and Vixen has previous!!

They source-shop for bits of information that will fit their pre-determined conclusions (Column N, Row 4) and ignore any they find that do not (Column G, Row 2). Usually, but not always, those sources are dubious sources and are often also conspiracy theorists themselves.

When confronted with evidence they don't want to see, they pretend it doesn't exist (Column G, Row 2) by refusing to address it (Column I, Row 2).

Example, I posted this earlier



Did Vixen respond by addressing any of the points I made? Nope - those points were handwaved away. Instead, her response was...



... as if an absence of evidence was in any way significant.

I could also point out..

Does the lack of an obvious left hand sidelight cluster mean the car didn't have one?

Does the lack of an obvious left hand headlight mean the car didn't have one?

Does the lack of obvious driver and passenger door handles mean the car didn't have any?

Does the lack of an obvious left wing-mirror mean the car didn't have one?

And its worth pointing out a couple of extra inconvenient facts for the benefit of Vixen.

1. In the top right photo (the rear view of the red car), even in a professionally taken photo for a motoring magazine, taken in broad daylight, the left hand exhaust pipe is hardly visible at all - what chance seeing it in a smoke-filled building?

2. There is no such thing as a 2014 Range Rover EV. Land Rover will be released their first ever fully electric Range Rover this year
https://media.landrover.com/news/20...ver-electric-now-open-prototype-testing-phase

3. 2014 was the first Range Rover PHEV, but both its sidelight/air intake clusters and its taillights are vastly different from the 2014 Sport Diesel.

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6nvrhrmw49mdj2ckuz0u1/2014-RangeRoverPHEV.jpg?rlkey=ybl2y0lvu1fzq38rxg4ino931&raw=1[/qimg]

To summarize, the vehicle in the burning car photos is clearly, and obviously a 2014 - 2019 Range Rover. There is NO QUESTION about that. Given that it is not EV because there was no Range Rover EV until this year, and given it is not PHEV or an MHEV because, even though there were 2014 - 2019 models of these, they have obviously different sidelight and taillight configurations from the burning car, then it MUST be a 2014-2019 Range Rover Sport - Diesel or Petrol.

Time to stop digging Vixen!!
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That is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it. But there is zero evidence that the front view video of the vehicle is even authentic. So whilst you might be right or you might be wrong, please point to a citation that names the vehicle, model, make and year that confirms the cause of the fire was a RR Sport 2014 fully diesel (some had a 48V lithium battery already), preferably not an anonymous blogger or tweeter, or can we assume Sunak is indeed protecting the Tata JLR brand by withholding that information from the UK taxpayer? After all, he will not tell us how much taxpayer subsidy (a non-refundable 'grant' to Tata) he has given it for its lithium battery factory in the UK, Tata being the 100% owners of Jaguar Land Rover and who knows how much investment he or his wife have in Tata. (All 'blind' of course!)

 

[Vixen]

As has already been pointed out he did not confirm on that morning that it was a diesel.

Most of the cars have been removed. Most of the building has been demolished. The fact that some cars remain indicates there's no simple way to recover them but that doesn't mean people can't get to them, only that a recovery truck can't drive to them. Burned out cars are a low priority anyway, it's not as if they're going to be repaired.

All this is moot when you have the driver of the car, the CCTV of the car entering the car park, the records of the car he owns and they all describe the same diesel car.

So Mr. Hopkinson was up all night browsing the ANPR records, DVLA and CCTV. The man arrested, presumably the driver, wasn't arrested until some ten or so days later - the rumour circulating is that he abandoned his burning car to run to catch a flight to some important meeting or a holiday leaving staff and the Romanian lady to deal with his little 'accident' - or maybe Mr. Hopkinson just did a Shadrach, Meshak and Abednego: looked into the flames and made out a hazy fourth figure, which was the culprit vehicle and he could just about make out it was NOT an EV, not an EV of any sort, no sir-rEE!!!, not a full, Ev, not a plug-in EV and not a mild hybrid EV, you hear? It was a diesel. Honest, guv, hand on heart, it was a diesel, or I lose my job and my bonus. Honest!

 

[catsmate]

I must say, Vixen is doing a fine impression of Jim Garrison.

More like Duane Gish.

 

[catsmate]

<gibber snippage>

Repetitive, conspiratorial nonsense.
The initial vehicle in the Luton airport car-park fire was a diesel ICE. This is a fact, no matter how much you twist and turn, like a twisty turny thing.

Answers please.

Yeah, how about your "many experts"? Where are they?

 

[catsmate]

Hidden premise: This is newsworthy material. If people aren't circulating it, it's suspicious.

Wrt this specific point, perhaps Vixen is ignorant of current UKian events?

 

[catsmate]

do vanity plates really cost 10s of thousands of pounds? He in Oregon, they're 50 bucks

More like UK£250.

 

[Andy_Ross]

That is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it. But there is zero evidence that the front view video of the vehicle is even authentic. So whilst you might be right or you might be wrong, please point to a citation that names the vehicle, model, make and year that confirms the cause of the fire was a RR Sport 2014 fully diesel (some had a 48V lithium battery already), preferably not an anonymous blogger or tweeter, or can we assume Sunak is indeed protecting the Tata JLR brand by withholding that information from the UK taxpayer? After all, he will not tell us how much taxpayer subsidy (a non-refundable 'grant' to Tata) he has given it for its lithium battery factory in the UK, Tata being the 100% owners of Jaguar Land Rover and who knows how much investment he or his wife have in Tata. (All 'blind' of course!)

The fire service involved have confirmed the car was a diesel.

 

[catsmate]

The little matter mentioned in my post?
This means 40% of the car park structure has still not been dismantled and about 325 cars still remain in place over six months after the fire.

In other words, it is /has been far too dangerous for ANYBODY to walk into the worst affected area and have a look at the power drive or identifying numberplate, half burnt or not, let alone a Tdi number.

Bollocks.

 

[catsmate]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Given the amount of smoke, you would be unlikely to even see an exhaust pipe.

And that's a pathetic attempt at a handwave, even for you! You are trying to pretend the other obvious evidence doesn't exist.


ETA:

1. Hybrids still have exhaust pipes anyway, so its moot!
2. The EV versions of Range Rovers do not look anything like the 2014-2019 models - different body panels and different headlight and taillight clusters.

I see Vixen is desperately grasping at the straws she's spewing.

 

[Andy_Ross]

So Mr. Hopkinson was up all night browsing the ANPR records, DVLA and CCTV. The man arrested, presumably the driver, wasn't arrested until some ten or so days later - the rumour circulating is that he abandoned his burning car to run to catch a flight to some important meeting or a holiday leaving staff and the Romanian lady to deal with his little 'accident' - or maybe Mr. Hopkinson just did a Shadrach, Meshak and Abednego: looked into the flames and made out a hazy fourth figure, which was the culprit vehicle and he could just about make out it was NOT an EV, not an EV of any sort, no sir-rEE!!!, not a full, Ev, not a plug-in EV and not a mild hybrid EV, you hear? It was a diesel. Honest, guv, hand on heart, it was a diesel, or I lose my job and my bonus. Honest!

So you are claiming that the fire service involved are telling lies and they are part of a conspiracy to cover up the real cause of the fire?

 

[LondonJohn]

Take a close look at the first, second, third and fourth picture down, taken in the last six days. The third is a panoramic view but it is worth downloading it and enlarging each section.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/luton-airport-fire-hundreds-burnt-32668109

How can it be 'confirmed', when it is still too dangerous to even remove the vehicles for now?

Browse pictures of the fire and you can see the fire was largely contained on the top level for quite a while. Indeed, an eye witness put a time on it: 'Just after 9:00pm' the whole of the top level was ablaze within minutes.

So, in your view, BF&RS is lying when it states it confirms that Car Zero was an ordinary diesel car, and not an EV of any kind whatsoever?

You're a conspiracy theorist touting a conspiracy theory.