Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[jimbob]

The lack of an engine is a good indicator.

Indeed, I was being very generous and thinking of hybrids, but they are also bloody obvious as the drive would be completely different from a straight ICE.

 

[Vixen]

Lots of ways. Do they have ANPR images from it going into the car park, do they have remains of the numberplate. Do they have any branding identifying the model (my car says TDi, for example). Is there the remains of a diesel engine? Is there a location for a GBFO battery pack? And that's just thinking whilst walking back from the shop.

This a 'Two Ronnies' parallel universe moment?

Scene: The Hardware Shop

RONNIE CORBETT (for it is he) <fx gives customer a pointed look> : You're 'avin' me on, ain't ya, yer 'avin' me on?

 

[phiwum]

And you know it is a Range Rover Sport 2014...how...?

I didn't say anything at all about the make or model. I only said that the evidence clearly implies that the vehicle in the video is Car Zero.

Goodness, do try to read. Heck, I'll give you another chance.

Question 7: How was Mr. Hopkinson in a position to state so confidently it was 'not an electric vehicle but a diesel one' as of within hours of the fire being extinguished? Even if the owner had provided an ID how can he know that the DVLA description was accurate and how can he be absolutely certain it was the vehicle filmed by the Romanian lady that started the fire?

Most of these questions are irrelevant, since it has been confirmed to be a diesel ICE that started the fire. However. let's look at Question 7.

I don't know how the chief (?) knew the kind of engine in the first car. Perhaps that will come out later. However, as far as why we reckon the filmed vehicle was the first car:

1. There were no other cars on fire near that vehicle. The video is clear enough on that point.
2. Hence, it seems that either that was the first vehicle or two vehicles coincidentally caught fire without any causal connection between the two of them.
3. The driver of the first vehicle reportedly attempted to put out the fire with an extinguisher and an extinguisher is found in the video.
4. Thus, to add to the coincidences, if there are two vehicles that happened to catch fire at about the same time, both fires were unsuccessfully treated with a fire extinguisher.
5. The first vehicle to catch fire was not in a parking space and neither was the vehicle in the video.

The coincidental fires are pretty damned unlikely. Even if you could imagine that the first vehicle fire somehow caused the fire in the video, despite no evident fire nearby, the other two coincidences remain unscathed.

Hence, it is very likely that the video does indeed show the first vehicle to catch fire.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Question 1. How come NOBODY has asked to reproduce 'Bitcoin Bertie' (517 followers)'s video of the burning car...

When did you establish that particular Twitter user owns the copyright?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

The sheer amount of special pleading going on is amazing. Random people online are derided by Vixen as being poor sources...except for two people who made comments on a YouTube video. Those are fine.

 

[jimbob]

This a 'Two Ronnies' parallel universe moment?

Scene: The Hardware Shop

RONNIE CORBETT (for it is he) <fx gives customer a pointed look> : You're 'avin' me on, ain't ya, yer 'avin' me on?

What has this to do with the fact that it would be trivial for the fire brigade to identify whether the vehicle had a mahoosive tray for lithium batteries, or an internal combustion engine, or both?

 

[gabeygoat]

Question 8: The car claimed by catsmate and Bitcoin Bertie to be a Range Rover Sport 2014 is claimed by them to have a standard number plate. Yet the car in the Romanian lady's video shows a very short four number -numberplate. This suggests the car, far from being ten-years-old, is much newer, as it points to someone quite wealthy to want to spend tens of thousands of pounds on a personalised numberplate. Why does catsmate believe that identification is the correct one? Or anybody?

Answers please.

do vanity plates really cost 10s of thousands of pounds? He in Oregon, they're 50 bucks

 

[Vixen]

What has this to do with the fact that it would be trivial for the fire brigade to identify whether the vehicle had a mahoosive tray for lithium batteries, or an internal combustion engine, or both?

The little matter mentioned in my post?

• The fire was deemed a critical incident for three hours (9:38pm to 12:20am)
• It was finally extinguished at 8:45 am - more than twelve hours after it started (circa 8:38pm the previous evening).
• 10:00 am 11 Oct 2023 same day, Andrew Hopkinson said it was believed to have been a diesel vehicle that was the cause and not an electric one.

New update as of five days ago:

"Luton Airport said more than 60% of the affected car park had been dismantled and 75% of the 1,300 vehicles affected have been ‘removed by salvage experts on behalf of insurers’." Daily Mail


This means 40% of the car park structure has still not been dismantled and about 325 cars still remain in place over six months after the fire.

In other words, it is /has been far too dangerous for ANYBODY to walk into the worst affected area and have a look at the power drive or identifying numberplate, half burnt or not, let alone a Tdi number.

What is 'trivial' about that fact? Nobody has been able to get near it as of 26 April 2024.

Yet you are claiming this was done within two hours of the fire being extinguished, whilst the embers were still red hot and only a fool would have attempted to access the building.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

For gods sake Vixen, have a care for your fellow posters! This much straw could set off my hayfever.

 

[Vixen]

When did you establish that particular Twitter user owns the copyright?

The first appearance was in a brand new twitter account. Nobody knows who is responsible and nobody has bothered to find out. Yet people on ISF swear blind it was a Range Rover Sport 2014 because the person who uploaded the video claimed to have deciphered the numberplate and looked it up on DVLA. Yet noone is able to give a citation. (Except Smart Cooky, who found a blog which also didn't give a source.)

 

[Vixen]

I didn't say anything at all about the make or model. I only said that the evidence clearly implies that the vehicle in the video is Car Zero.

Goodness, do try to read. Heck, I'll give you another chance.

"Very likely" or 'implies' does not mean the same as 'it is confirmed'.

 

[GlennB]

do vanity plates really cost 10s of thousands of pounds? He in Oregon, they're 50 bucks

It depends. If you buy an existing one it can be 000's, depending on its desirability. If you just want your own (unremarkable) initials it's a few hundred. My initials are GWB so it would be cheap.

But, hey, when did Vixen not willfully distort?

 

[Vixen]

do vanity plates really cost 10s of thousands of pounds? He in Oregon, they're 50 bucks

See here for Land Rover reg plates. The shorter the number, the more expensive: as much as GBP65,000 or more!


https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/car-number-plates/land-rover

 

[Vixen]

Best view I can get of the numberplate

Screenshot 2024-05-02 233014 by Username Vixen, on Flickr

image re educational purposes

 

[smartcooky]

And you know it is a Range Rover Sport 2014...how...?

In both cases, the car on the right is a 2014 Range Rover Sport

Top photos:
1. The sidelight / air intake clusters are identical.
2. The headlight shape and its positional relationship to the front mudguard flare shape are identical.
3. The bottom air intake position in relation to 1. above are identical

Bottom photos: I couldn't find a photo with the exact angle as the burning car. This photo is taken slightly to the right and above where the burning car photo was taken from.
4. The taillight clusters are identical.

In a quick look on Google images for other views of other makes and models of SUVs, I could not find any other make or model that had anything remotely resembling this collection of identical features.

For sure, the 2015-2019 Range Rover looks very similar (2020 have LED taillight clusters , and 2013 have different taillights altogether)

It is my opinion that the burning car IS a 2014 to 2019 Range Rover, and given that the number plate came back to a 2014 model, its pretty damned conclusive that's what it is!

 

[phiwum]

"Very likely" or 'implies' does not mean the same as 'it is confirmed'.

Look, you asked a silly question. You asked how the fire chief (or whatever the proper title is) could know that the vehicle in the video is the same as Car Zero. Since, as far as I know, he's never said that this is the case, it was a loaded question.

I gave you good reason to think the vehicle in the video is Car Zero. Is it proof beyond doubt? Of course not. How can it be? I can't prove beyond doubt that there was a car park in Luton.

But I can give good evidence that there was a car park in Luton and I can give good evidence that the car in the video is Car Zero. If you want mathematical proof, then I can't give it to you of course. All we're looking for here is sufficient evidence, not deductive proof.

(By the way, in many cases, "implies" does mean "it is confirmed". So long as the antecedent is known to be true, then the consequent will also be known to be true.

This is not an invitation for a discussion of your expertise in logical terminology. As one who has studied his fair share of logic, I just couldn't let such a silly comment go.)

 

[Vixen]

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/u19nhgkjm2ry1zzus4hwg/2014RRLuton-front.jpg?rlkey=9e2ma05cb09ymc7xbsqo1gpxx&raw=1[/qimg]

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/j0ulfgc3bq8jhakle0yer/2014RRLuton-rear.jpg?rlkey=05rsa1r866efn8hajyl8ye749&raw=1[/qimg]

In both cases, the car on the right is a 2014 Range Rover Sport

Top photos:
1. The sidelight / air intake clusters are identical.
2. The headlight shape and its positional relationship to the front mudguard flare shape are identical.
3. The bottom air intake position in relation to 1. above are identical

Bottom photos: I couldn't find a photo with the exact angle as the burning car. This photo is taken slightly to the right and above where the burning car photo was taken from.
4. The taillight clusters are identical.

In a quick look on Google images for other views of other makes and models of SUVs, I could not find any other make or model that had anything remotely resembling this collection of identical features.

For sure, the 2015-2019 Range Rover looks very similar (2020 have LED taillight clusters , and 2013 have different taillights altogether)

It is my opinion that the burning car IS a 2014 to 2019 Range Rover, and given that the number plate came back to a 2014 model, its pretty damned conclusive that's what it is!

And your explanation for the lack of an obvious exhaust pipe in the video..?

 

[smartcooky]

And your explanation for the lack of an obvious exhaust pipe in the video..?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Given the amount of smoke, you would be unlikely to even see an exhaust pipe.

And that's a pathetic attempt at a handwave, even for you! You are trying to pretend the other obvious evidence doesn't exist.


ETA:

1. Hybrids still have exhaust pipes anyway, so its moot!
2. The EV versions of Range Rovers do not look anything like the 2014-2019 models - different body panels and different headlight and taillight clusters.

 

[smartcooky]

...I just couldn't let such a silly comment go.)

You are being very generous calling it silly.

 

[Vixen]

Given the amount of smoke, you would be unlikely to even see an exhaust pipe. And that's a pathetic attempt at a handwave, even for you!

ETA:

1. Hybrids still have exhaust pipes anyway, so its moot!
2. The EV versions of Range Rovers do not look anything like the 2014-2019 models - different body panels and different headlight and taillight clusters.

I'll have a close look. However, I am sceptical the front view video is authentic.