Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire III

[MarkCorrigan]

Of course I am aware of such biases. It is possible to read media without being sucked in.

What planet are you on where this is a response to the post you quoted?

 

[Vixen]

I mention his degree precisely because he mentions it himself.

Without the degree, what do we have? He has had, he says, a long career in journalism focusing on vehicles. I don't know whether he has a good reputation in those circles or whether anyone regards him as an expert because of his experience there. We also know he puts out videos on Youtube, but I'm not sure I regard Youtube audiences as reliable judges of automotive expertise.

So, you tell me: On what grounds do you judge him an Auto Expert? Is it merely because he calls himself one?

More to the point, why do you regard him as an expert in judging whether a particular car fire was caused by a lithium ion battery?

I just saw him as entertainment. He commented on Luton Airport car park fire, so I watched it. I haven't watched anything else of his. However, half a million views on that topic indicates huge public interest, and that is a place where people go if there is no information forthcoming from elsewhere, albeit for the obvious reason it is 'under investigation'.

 

[Vixen]

You chose a remarkably bad example. He likes driving cars and writing about them.

He knows bugger all about the engineering that goes into them and indeed the show regularly leaned in to make jokes about how clueless and ham-fisted he was when faced with the simplest servicing jobs.

I never watched him but my kid seemed to like Top Gear for some reason.



https://youtu.be/6pc0u-iqIDw?si=DLF8jRz0593CIeGl

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Jesus. Your attempts at defending yourself just dig you deeper.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Which is a car-themed comedy show. Clarkson is primary a comedian, brought in to save the show from the insufferably cerebral James May.

To be fair to Clarkson he was a motoring journalist, a successful one, before he was a comedian and he was on Top Gear before May (although both date back to when it was a more serious motoring show, it started in 1977, before the cancellation and reboot that made it internationally popular). He's an accomplished driver and has ample experience driving an incredible range of cars in an impressive range of conditions. I don't think there's anything wrong with describing him as an expert in cars within a certain range of critera, identifying cars, knowing their value, a lot about their history, driving style & capabilities etc. However that doesn't make him an accident or fire investigator and the same is true, and more so, of almost any other 'car expert' in the normal sense.*

*Although a long term member of the Top Gear/Grand Tour teams has probably seen more car crashes and petrol fires than most car experts, still not experts in that area though!

 

[theprestige]

I also wouldn't be surprised if he knows a good bit about automobile maintenance and repair, and intentionally plays the clown's part because it makes for better television.

 

[phiwum]

I just saw him as entertainment. He commented on Luton Airport car park fire, so I watched it. I haven't watched anything else of his. However, half a million views on that topic indicates huge public interest, and that is a place where people go if there is no information forthcoming from elsewhere, albeit for the obvious reason it is 'under investigation'.

Huh. He and Geoff have been downgraded.

No need to listen to me. Take a look at what a couple of car experts say.

First, Auto Expert John Cadogan, who brought out this video shortly after the fire:

[...]

Almost half a million views, so you cannot just brush him off as an inconsequential 'conspiracy theorist'.

Then there is a really excellent summing up by citizen investigative YouTuber Geoff Buys Cars:[...]

So, you do not claim that either of these two are experts, but they are entertaining, if I understand you now. Very good. Let's return to this earlier post.

[...]
In the case of the Luton Airport car park fire there are many experts and commentators who are sceptical of the initial claims and of the failure to provide concrete information as to the make of the car involved. [...]

If you weren't referring to the self-described Auto Expert nor Geoff Buys Cars, which experts do you have in mind? Or are you willing to admit that the term "experts" was inapt?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

OK, who slipped a tab of acid into the cup of tea I had a couple of hours ago?

C'mon, one of you bastards knows who did it!

I know I'm hallucinating as I just read a claim that Clarkson is revered as an auto-expert over here. Some of the other bobbins, such as how much forelock tugging I do in the direction of the Duke of Northumberland, I'd put down to sleeping badly the night before, but this is outright psychedelic...

 

[jimbob]

Huh. He and Geoff have been downgraded.



So, you do not claim that either of these two are experts, but they are entertaining, if I understand you now. Very good. Let's return to this earlier post.



If you weren't referring to the self-described Auto Expert nor Geoff Buys Cars, which experts do you have in mind? Or are you willing to admit that the term "experts" was inapt?

Row 1, col 2

For someone who claims not to be a conspiracy theorist, you sure as hell tick a lot of these boxes....

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g3aomiv90tyno6txybwqw/CTBingo.png?rlkey=xxsqthskd2rsknm84kcqxyb1k&raw=1[/qimg]

...and not just in this thread!!!
‎
‎

 

[JayUtah]

I just saw him as entertainment. He commented on Luton Airport car park fire, so I watched it.

But you're trying to qualify him as an expert to support your point. He's either an expert, and you can show that he is and that his opinion therefore has evidentiary value, or he isn't and you should stop trying to make his opinion look like evidence.

 

[JayUtah]

I never watched him but my kid seemed to like Top Gear for some reason.

You're doing quite a lot today to cement my impression that you don't have the faintest idea how to tell if someone knows what he's talking about or not.

 

[JayUtah]

To be fair to Clarkson he was a motoring journalist, a successful one, before he was a comedian and he was on Top Gear before May...

Yeah, while I was driving between my data center and my office I was thinking that it would be fair to report Clarkson has having some expertise in the automotive industry and the commensurate skill at driving. And it's difficult to know how much bungling he does for comedic value and how much is genuine.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Yeah, while I was driving between my data center and my office I was thinking that it would be fair to report Clarkson has having some expertise in the automotive industry. And it's difficult to know how much bungling he does for comedic value and how much is genuine.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he knows a good bit about automobile maintenance and repair, and intentionally plays the clown's part because it makes for better television.

I don't know how much support they actually get on their builds & vehicle torture trials, but I think it would have been impossible not to pick up quite a bit along the way.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Hang on!

Was it the Top Gear (as was) mob wot done it?

I've certainly seen them set fire to a few things, including a snowy Norwegian village and a car wash. If they can set fire to snow and water, well...

 

[theprestige]

I guess it's possible that now he's found this niche, he's started phoning in the technical stuff. "Playing the clown pays well enough that I can hire technicians to do the brainy bits, and spend my non-clown time on other pursuits." Something like that.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I just saw him as entertainment. He commented on Luton Airport car park fire, so I watched it. I haven't watched anything else of his. However, half a million views on that topic indicates huge public interest, and that is a place where people go if there is no information forthcoming from elsewhere, albeit for the obvious reason it is 'under investigation'.

Well it's good to know that popularity invariably indicates high quality.

 

[zooterkin]

I guess it's possible that now he's found this niche, he's started phoning in the technical stuff. "Playing the clown pays well enough that I can hire technicians to do the brainy bits, and spend my non-clown time on other pursuits." Something like that.

If you're talking about Clarkson, he's moved on from Top Gear (and the Amazon version, Grand Tour) to farming (and getting good reviews for that, though I shan't be watching it).

 

[P.J. Denyer]

If you're talking about Clarkson, he's moved on from Top Gear (and the Amazon version, Grand Tour) to farming (and getting good reviews for that, though I shan't be watching it).

It's quite interesting. I keep meaning to take a trip to his farm shop.

 

[JayUtah]

I think Clarkson's Farm is hysterical, although his neighbors don't. The vibe seems to be his standard, "I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to do it anyway." Clarkson's documentary on the St. Nazaire raid is more my fare anyway. He can be a serious presenter, but that's not why people watch him.

The whole point in bringing up Jeremy Clarkson was to try to show how a self-made person who failed at school can still acquire a reputation for expertise. First, I don't dispute this; I've given several examples on my own of expertise learned in nontraditional ways. Second, it's changing horses to first claim a formal credential as a qualification for your expert and then back away from it when it's shown to be irrelevant.

This is all in service of Vixen's perennial argument that people who spoil her fun with actual credentials and demonstrated expertise must be snobs. That particular bit of name-calling is her common point of refuge whenever her proffered experts turn out to be less than what she promised. She can't rehabilitate them, so she tries to shame people away from calling them out.

Pointing out that some person has successfully followed a different path to erudition does not prove that others who also claim a different path must necessarily have arrived at erudition. The also laughed at Bozo the Clown. And when a source puts popularity above correctness, it becomes very easy to conflate entertainment with reliability.

 

[Andy_Ross]

In England, Jeremy Clarkson is revered as an auto expert - he presented a long running television car show called 'Top Gear' - yet he left school (albeit an expensive one) with just one O-level and expelled.

How do you reconcile that with your snobbish claim that John Cadogan "has "a degree" in Mechanical Engineering. My guess is that it's an undergraduate degree"...? Whilst academia is admirable, it's not the be-all and end-all. In my last employment but one, one of the partners was earning £2m a year having left school at fifteen. He was fortunate to have gone into the profession when paper qualifications were not compulsory. I know plenty of well-educated academic types who failed professional exam after professional exam. So your criteria seems to be based on pure snobbery.

Clarkson is a tv presenter that spouts obvious ******** for money and professes to be a mechanical idiot.
His Top Gear persona insists that the only tool he can use is a hammer.