NZ Politics, the Luxon Era

dudalb said:
But Human beings are not Vulcans.............
I am all in favor of teaching math and science but Samson's agenda reminds me too much of Mr. Gradgrind's in Dickens "Hard Times".
Let;s balance it with some art and Literature ,Please.
I also note is total omission of History...huge mistake.
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Was planning another Hard Times audio, thanks for reminding.
History started with the big bang.
 
The Atheist said:
Easy day for the cops on who painted over the rainbow crossing in K Rd yesterday.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/full-...eing-painted-over/QU63SQOBIJCHTIU5DJX3BN27NA/

Aside from the fact that it was obviously Destiny Church wankers they failed to recognise that there are 500 CCTV cameras in K Rd and used their own car.

Morons whose act of vandalism will see them charged with a hate crime.
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I am surprised you have this view.
Albert Park protesters inflamed this war. The police decided to not find the young man who beat the old lady, until they were forced to with footage from Simon Anderson.
They have deployed resource to locate these graffiti artists with immediate haste.
 
A perfect example of the stupidity in play in New Zealand.

Christ Church Cathedral in Christchurch was wasted by the earthquake, but instead of bulldozing it, rules mean that it must be re-built.

Insurance was tens (or hundreds) of millions less than required, costs have nearly tripled from the initial estimate of $100m, and I'll be amazed if the final number isn't closer to $500m than the $250 on the cards now.

We're living in a time of austerity; just knock the bloody thing down.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350237199/christ-church-cathedral-restoration-could-be-mothballed
 
The Atheist said:
A perfect example of the stupidity in play in New Zealand.

Christ Church Cathedral in Christchurch was wasted by the earthquake, but instead of bulldozing it, rules mean that it must be re-built.

Insurance was tens (or hundreds) of millions less than required, costs have nearly tripled from the initial estimate of $100m, and I'll be amazed if the final number isn't closer to $500m than the $250 on the cards now.

We're living in a time of austerity; just knock the bloody thing down.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350237199/christ-church-cathedral-restoration-could-be-mothballed
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Yup 13 years a building site.

They could have bowled it, cleaned up the site and built a new cathedral to earthquake safety standards, incorporating whatever stone and building materials they could salvage from the original, in less than half the time it has taken so far, and at a fraction of the cost of what they have so far spend on this.

Idiots one and all!
 
Samson said:
I am surprised you have this view.
Albert Park protesters inflamed this war. The police decided to not find the young man who beat the old lady, until they were forced to with footage from Simon Anderson.
They have deployed resource to locate these graffiti artists with immediate haste.
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I'm not, and I take the same view as TA on this.

People have a right to be who they are. To quote a part of JK Rowling's recent statement...

"I want them to be free to dress and present themselves however they like and I want them to have exactly the same rights as every other citizen regarding housing, employment and personal safety."​

What I do NOT want them to have the right to do is to impose their feelings on others, or to weaponize their feelings to negate the rights of others.

One of the reasons I am on the other side of this part of the debate from you is that, unlike you, I do not have any objection at all to the existence of LGBTQ people - the Destiny Church does - they are a bunch of bigoted scumbags who would "eliminate" gay, lesbian and trans people of they had the chance. - they are not unlike the brownshirts of pre-war Germany. What that sleazy prick Tamaki and his cult followers did was not only against the law, it was counter to the will of the people in that community.

If you don't like rainbow crossings, don't use them.
If you don't like rainbow flags, don't look at them.
If you don't like LGBTQ people, don't interact with them.

Its that simple
‎
I understand you might have a more simplistic view of this (which seems to amount to 'straight people good, queer people bad') but mine is more nuanced than that. While I am opposed to the idea that males should be allowed to simply declare themselves to be female by fiat and therefore be allowed to access female safe spaces and female sports, I also find myself to be opposed to people like Posie Parker - the main reason being the types of supporters she attracts to her events. She attracts far right and fascist supporters - who are nothing more than gay-bashers who most certainly do not have any interest in protecting the rights of women. In other words, I like what she stands for but I do not like how she stands for it.

Parker does almost nothing to distance herself from them beyond a few mealy-mouthed weasel words. She need to change this - she needs to continually distance herself from those bastards. She needs to make it absolutely loud and clear in both her own spoken words, and in the publications advertising her events that fascists and gay-bashers are NOT welcome.
 
Hmm. Maybe not a "crack in the coalition" as being sold, but interesting nevertheless: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/poli...im-he-d-investigate-leak-and-then-didn-t.html

Seymour is right to be annoyed - leaks can be disastrous for a government, and ACT already looks on a hiding to nothing against the groundswell Chloe seems to have created.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/polit...christopher-luxon/44EPX2VKLVE7BN7UNRIGOTHOKM/

Luxon should be checking his rear-view mirror - being the 2nd most-popular MP isn't ideal.
 
The Atheist said:
Hmm. Maybe not a "crack in the coalition" as being sold, but interesting nevertheless: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/poli...im-he-d-investigate-leak-and-then-didn-t.html

Seymour is right to be annoyed - leaks can be disastrous for a government, and ACT already looks on a hiding to nothing against the groundswell Chloe seems to have created.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/polit...christopher-luxon/44EPX2VKLVE7BN7UNRIGOTHOKM/

Luxon should be checking his rear-view mirror - being the 2nd most-popular MP isn't ideal.
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In all honesty, watching this coalition of misfits farcically tripping over its own feet every five minutes is like watching an episode of "Yes, Prime Minister"
 
smartcooky said:
I'm not, and I take the same view as TA on this.

People have a right to be who they are. To quote a part of JK Rowling's recent statement...

"I want them to be free to dress and present themselves however they like and I want them to have exactly the same rights as every other citizen regarding housing, employment and personal safety."​

What I do NOT want them to have the right to do is to impose their feelings on others, or to weaponize their feelings to negate the rights of others.

One of the reasons I am on the other side of this part of the debate from you is that, unlike you, I do not have any objection at all to the existence of LGBTQ people - the Destiny Church does - they are a bunch of bigoted scumbags who would "eliminate" gay, lesbian and trans people of they had the chance. - they are not unlike the brownshirts of pre-war Germany. What that sleazy prick Tamaki and his cult followers did was not only against the law, it was counter to the will of the people in that community.

If you don't like rainbow crossings, don't use them.
If you don't like rainbow flags, don't look at them.
If you don't like LGBTQ people, don't interact with them.

Its that simple
‎
I understand you might have a more simplistic view of this (which seems to amount to 'straight people good, queer people bad') but mine is more nuanced than that. While I am opposed to the idea that males should be allowed to simply declare themselves to be female by fiat and therefore be allowed to access female safe spaces and female sports, I also find myself to be opposed to people like Posie Parker - the main reason being the types of supporters she attracts to her events. She attracts far right and fascist supporters - who are nothing more than gay-bashers who most certainly do not have any interest in protecting the rights of women. In other words, I like what she stands for but I do not like how she stands for it.

Parker does almost nothing to distance herself from them beyond a few mealy-mouthed weasel words. She need to change this - she needs to continually distance herself from those bastards. She needs to make it absolutely loud and clear in both her own spoken words, and in the publications advertising her events that fascists and gay-bashers are NOT welcome.
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I agree on Posie Parker that she is unnecessarily abrasive. She goes after good people like Stella O'Malley.
There are dozens of curate's eggs in this battle for sanity.
Even Destiny Church is good in parts.
Once someone has taken steps to hurt themselves, I have sympathy, but not much understanding any more. In the NZ context we have well meaning people like Julia de Bres, who has a trans child. Unfortunately this leads to her telling abject falsehoods about puberty blockers etc.
She runs Inside Out, which is government funded to teach trans in schools. This must stop.
 
More trouble in paradise: https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/19/luxon-jones-seymours-waitangi-tribunal-comments-ill-considered/

Seymour came back with:

Stuff asked Seymour if he accepted the prime minister's message, and if he agreed his comments had been "ill-conceived".

But Seymour isn't backing down.

“I’m surprised to hear this, if you have a concern about another leader’s comments you should raise them directly rather than through media, which is what I now intend to do," Seymour said.
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/35...ts-back-after-luxon-rebukes-him-over-waitangi
 
Destiny Church are now described by Stephen Franks as more in tune with the proles than the left.
 
Samson said:
Destiny Church are now described by Stephen Franks as more in tune with the proles than the left.
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If by "proles" you mean the working class, then you are talking though that hole you have between your buttock cheeks. Destiny Church are nothing more or less than a Christo-Fascist cult. They are most closely aligned with the kinds Nazi-adjacent far-right morons that caused all the trouble at the 2022 plague-rat convention in Wellington than any other single group in the country - and they are certainly reviled by anyone on the left of centre-right.
 
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smartcooky said:
If by "proles" you mean the working class, then you are talking though that hole you have between your buttock cheeks. Destiny Church are nothing more or less than a Christo-Fascist cult. They are most closely aligned with the kinds Nazi-adjacent far-right morons that caused all the trouble at the 2022 plague-rat convention in Wellington than any other single group in the country - and they are certainly reviled by anyone on the left of centre-right.
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By proles I mean rereading 1984.

"If there was hope, it lay in the proles."
 
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Samson said:
By proles I mean rereading 1984.

"If there was hope, it lay in the proles."
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Ok, so the "proles" in 1984 were the "proletariat". They were what we would now call "blue collar" workers. That sleezebag Tamaki is correctly described by Wikipedia as "a Christian fundamentalist religious leader, conspiracy theorist, and far-right political activist" His cult members hang on his every word, and will follow him wherever he goes. Blue collar workers are mostly a centre to left-wing, union aligned group. They would not be aligned with the Destiny Church - they would not be able to afford the 10% wage tithe cult members have to pay to keep Tamaki and his wife living in their multi-million dollar luxury home.


And its not even a very big cult. Tamaki claims 6,000 members, but in reality, its less than 1,800. Even the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has more than twice as many members at 4,200.
 
smartcooky said:
That sleezebag Tamaki is correctly described by Wikipedia as "a Christian fundamentalist religious leader, conspiracy theorist, and far-right political activist"
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He's built himself a gang of former gang members. Rides a Harley himself.

The really funny part to me is that Tamaki is actually a bigger atheist than me. He knows for sure that if any of the Jehovah crap was true he's built himself a one-way ticket to hell.

And it's not just people left of centre who wouldn't follow Tamaki, he's reviled across the board and even Luxon knows not to cuddle up to him.
__________________

Meanwhile, Tova O'Brien asked three former senior MPs whether they thought the coalition would implode before the next election. Two yes and one probably.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/35...next-election-say-former-government-ministers
 
smartcooky said:
Ok, so the "proles" in 1984 were the "proletariat". They were what we would now call "blue collar" workers. That sleezebag Tamaki is correctly described by Wikipedia as "a Christian fundamentalist religious leader, conspiracy theorist, and far-right political activist" His cult members hang on his every word, and will follow him wherever he goes. Blue collar workers are mostly a centre to left-wing, union aligned group. They would not be aligned with the Destiny Church - they would not be able to afford the 10% wage tithe cult members have to pay to keep Tamaki and his wife living in their multi-million dollar luxury home.


And its not even a very big cult. Tamaki claims 6,000 members, but in reality, its less than 1,800. Even the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has more than twice as many members at 4,200.
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Yes. I just finished the audio book read by Peter Capaldi for Penguin. (Heard of the latter, not the former).
On Spotify.
The audiobook is a great enterprise, I have near limitless time while driving for work.

My point was not admiration for Brian Tamaki, but noting Stephen Franks and the Free Speech Union finding far more in common with Tamaki than the crowd he opposes.
Stephen Franks and Jonathan Ayling saved the career of momo st John from doxxing by Jody O'Callaghan from Stuff.
She is labeled a senior journalist at age 35. This is the damage being done, we are listening to indoctrinated children, by accident.
 
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