U.S. Border and Immigration

[sir drinks-a-lot]

As anyone actually proposed anything useful in this thread? What should the US do regarding the border and immigration? Personally, I think we should copy Canada with our immigration policy and start actually controlling our border.

I'm not too familiar with the Canadian processes, but I think your short summarization of "actually controlling our border" is a great place to start. I think, ideally, we should have absolutely no illegal immigration.

The questions about legal immigration and acceptance of refugees are probably a different discussion.

 

[plague311]

As anyone actually proposed anything useful in this thread? What should the US do regarding the border and immigration? Personally, I think we should copy Canada with our immigration policy and start actually controlling our border.

We aren't controlling the border right now? How many people even ******* try to illegally cross into Canada? Give me a number in comparison to how many try to cross the Southern US border. I'll wait, take all the time you need.

Why is it always the same ******* people who say "things that work in other countries won't work here" like gun restrictions, compulsory voting, etc. but say **** like this when it comes to immigration.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

We aren't controlling the border right now? How many people even ******* try to illegally cross into Canada? Give me a number in comparison to how many try to cross the Southern US border. I'll wait, take all the time you need.

Why is it always the same ******* people who say "things that work in other countries won't work here" like gun restrictions, compulsory voting, etc. but say **** like this when it comes to immigration.

Why don't you answer those questions for us, if you think it helps whatever point you're trying to make? I just did a 5 second Google search and see that around 40,000 people entered Canada illegally a couple of years ago.

Do you have any ideas on illegal immigration to the US?

 

[ahhell]

We aren't controlling the border right now? How many people even ******* try to illegally cross into Canada? Give me a number in comparison to how many try to cross the Southern US border. I'll wait, take all the time you need.

Why is it always the same ******* people who say "things that work in other countries won't work here" like gun restrictions, compulsory voting, etc. but say **** like this when it comes to immigration.

I was merely referring to who the let in, how many, and for what reasons. Obviously, they don't have the same border issues, they only border one country. But their actual immigration policy is pretty good. They let in a lot of people more or less based on what they have to offer Canada and they make it easy to work there, especially for skilled labor.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I'm not following. Are you claiming the actual number of ALL criminals in the USA is miniscule?

No, not it. I am saying treat all criminals the same as illegals. Same punishment for all of them - deportation.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Sounds like you agree with an opinion held by many on the right (gasp) in the US - deport all illegal immigrants. Or, as you call them, illegals.

Confirming that is incorrect. Not my view.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Anywhere there is an international airport with flights too and from other countries, there is a national border that needs to be controlled. Does the USA have international airports? Does Canada have international airports? I seem to remember they do. A LOT of "illegals", aka undocumented immigrants, are visa overstayers who arrived through airports. So is this border control focusing on the wrong place?

 

[Brainster]

Sounds like you agree with an opinion held by many on the right (gasp) in the US - deport all illegal immigrants. Or, as you call them, illegals.

No, he thinks we should deport all our homegrown criminals as well as illegals. It's an interesting take certainly.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

What Americans don't WANT to understand is that most migrants would be happy to do SEASONAL work in the US - because they can get a steady income for only a short amount of time of the year, but America is expensive all year round.

But because border crossing has been made so hard it no longer makes financial sense to pay a coyote to take you there, back, and there again next season. So they HAVE to stay.

It's a problem entirely created by terrible, evil, counterproductive policies - because politicians LOVE problems they can campaign on again and again and again

 

[Steve]

No, not it. I am saying treat all criminals the same as illegals. Same punishment for all of them - deportation.

Good. I understood you correctly first time. The total number of incarcerated criminals in the USA is not "miniscule" so I am confused as to why you used that description in your response to me.

Anyway, this is a trivial sidetrack that does not need to be continued.

 

[lobosrul5]

What Americans don't WANT to understand is that most migrants would be happy to do SEASONAL work in the US - because they can get a steady income for only a short amount of time of the year, but America is expensive all year round.

But because border crossing has been made so hard it no longer makes financial sense to pay a coyote to take you there, back, and there again next season. So they HAVE to stay.

It's a problem entirely created by terrible, evil, counterproductive policies - because politicians LOVE problems they can campaign on again and again and again

I'm not quite sure about that. Most of the migrants from Mexico probably so. But the people escaping actual persecution from central and south America... probably not. Lost in all this is many of the people seeking political asylum are doing so legitimately. ETA: that is the actual law within the USA. Anyone claiming asylum from political or religious persecution is supposed to be granted a hearing to determine if their claims are legitimate.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Good. I understood you correctly first time. The total number of incarcerated criminals in the USA is not "miniscule" so I am confused as to why you used that description in your response to me.

Anyway, this is a trivial sidetrack that does not need to be continued.

The total number of convicted illegals committing jail worthy crimes would be a minuscule number compared to the number of US citizens jailed for the same crimes. The US has millions of inmates already. A handful more would be no burden.

OK, will drop the subject.

 

[ahhell]

Anywhere there is an international airport with flights too and from other countries, there is a national border that needs to be controlled. Does the USA have international airports? Does Canada have international airports? I seem to remember they do. A LOT of "illegals", aka undocumented immigrants, are visa overstayers who arrived through airports. So is this border control focusing on the wrong place?

No, even if folks overstay their visa they presumably met the criteria for being let in in the first place. Aside from that, visa overstays are no longer the majority of illegal immigrants. It's illegal border crossing now.

Aside from that, are there millions of people illegally entering any country via international airports? Is there footage of passengers storming terminal gates and overwhelming TSA anywhere?

 

[Norman Alexander]

No, even if folks overstay their visa they presumably met the criteria for being let in in the first place. Aside from that, visa overstays are no longer the majority of illegal immigrants. It's illegal border crossing now.

Aside from that, are there millions of people illegally entering any country via international airports? Is there footage of passengers storming terminal gates and overwhelming TSA anywhere?

You have sort of got my point. A visa overstayer IS an illegal immigrants. By legal definition. But as you say, they were a legal arrival first when they crossed the border. That is, they were controlled at the border first. There are millions of visa overstays every year who are therefore illegal immigrants...all having been properly controlled at the border previously. So will strengthening border controls do anything to fix that situation?

 

[ahhell]

You have sort of got my point. A visa overstayer IS an illegal immigrants. By legal definition. But as you say, they were a legal arrival first when they crossed the border. That is, they were controlled at the border first. There are millions of visa overstays every year who are therefore illegal immigrants...all having been properly controlled at the border previously. So will strengthening border controls do anything to fix that situation?

No, but its not even the majority of the problem anymore and as I said, they at least met some criteria for getting in rather than being the random folk that manage to get across the border. I suspect, most folks would see them as less of an issue for that alone. It should relatively more straight forward and less intrusive to control who gets in in the first place rather than try an track down folks who are already here.

 

[Emily's Cat]

But their actual immigration policy is pretty good. They let in a lot of people more or less based on what they have to offer Canada and they make it easy to work there, especially for skilled labor.

The US let's in a lot of people based on what they have to offer the US, and we make it pretty easy to work here, especially for skilled labor and in-demand professions. US immigration policy is pretty good.

It's not our immigration policy that's in question - it's how we handle people who are not legally immigrating, who do not have a skilled trade or in-demand profession, and what we do with them after they've already entered illegally.

Those are two very different things.

 

[Emily's Cat]

No, not it. I am saying treat all criminals the same as illegals. Same punishment for all of them - deportation.

Exile used to be a thing, until we as a species ran out of place to exile criminals to.

Anyway, I don't think this is as reasonable as you might think. If your kid has little Alex Patterson over, and Alex starts acting up, it makes sense to remove Alex from your house and send them back to the Patterson house. When it's your own kid acting up, it makes a lot less sense to send them to the Patterson house.

 

[Emily's Cat]

What Americans don't WANT to understand is that most migrants would be happy to do SEASONAL work in the US - because they can get a steady income for only a short amount of time of the year, but America is expensive all year round.

But because border crossing has been made so hard it no longer makes financial sense to pay a coyote to take you there, back, and there again next season. So they HAVE to stay.

It's a problem entirely created by terrible, evil, counterproductive policies - because politicians LOVE problems they can campaign on again and again and again

The US has a process for seasonal agricultural workers to enter legally and work.

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-2a-temporary-agricultural-workers

 

[Norman Alexander]

Exile used to be a thing, until we as a species ran out of place to exile criminals to.

Anyway, I don't think this is as reasonable as you might think. If your kid has little Alex Patterson over, and Alex starts acting up, it makes sense to remove Alex from your house and send them back to the Patterson house. When it's your own kid acting up, it makes a lot less sense to send them to the Patterson house.

Your scenario is wrong. Little Alex Patterson is your adopted kid, not someone else's kid. He came into your family from somewhere else legally. Although he's not blood, he's yours to deal with. Now he's acting up, you don't get to send him back to wherever you got him originally.

My point was that the idea that immigrants are allowed stay on sufferance and can be deported for any reason is a bit silly. To be clear: I have no problem with an immigrant criminal being punished appropriately...inside their new country. They chose to come; thems the laws of the country. But tossing them out is simply repeating the problem. They will in all likelihood be back, and do it again. Awesome - two crimes, not one.

 

[dudalb]

The problem is, our media is setting it up as 2 equal sides debating. So of course, the good centrist moderate position is that they should compromise with each other. And if they can't compromise, both sides are equally at fault.

Ypu hate centrists more then you hate MAGA.