Split Thread Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla

[a_unique_person]

All painted car exteriors have the same advice for caring for the finish as the Cybertruck.


It is a failure as a truck, though.

 

[dirtywick]

It's a free trial. Lots of companies give out free trials in an attempt to hook more people to buy their products. Of course, most free trials don't have the potential to kill people.

What's interesting is why Tesla are suddenly doing this (and mandating the demo on delivery at the cost of huge inconvenience to their sales staff). I suspect they are in desperate need of the money a bump in take up of FSD would provide.

https://qz.com/elon-musk-tesla-electric-vehicle-deliveries-sales-q1-1851380928

while the stock continues to drop, not only sales but also deliveries fell short of expectations

as far as fsd goes, as much as people think it's cool and novel, or you could even pitch that it's safer than people, the pricing is pretty nuts. if they can get a lot of consumers to commit to it, there's a lot of money to be made. question is, if it's really even ready for that kind of rollout, does it function well enough to justify that kind of cost?

 

[Darat]

https://qz.com/elon-musk-tesla-electric-vehicle-deliveries-sales-q1-1851380928

while the stock continues to drop, not only sales but also deliveries fell short of expectations

as far as fsd goes, as much as people think it's cool and novel, or you could even pitch that it's safer than people, the pricing is pretty nuts. if they can get a lot of consumers to commit to it, there's a lot of money to be made. question is, if it's really even ready for that kind of rollout, does it function well enough to justify that kind of cost?

I'd say some of the changes are to make a second-hand Tesla less attractive.

 

[Lplus]

https://qz.com/elon-musk-tesla-electric-vehicle-deliveries-sales-q1-1851380928

while the stock continues to drop, not only sales but also deliveries fell short of expectations

as far as fsd goes, as much as people think it's cool and novel, or you could even pitch that it's safer than people, the pricing is pretty nuts. if they can get a lot of consumers to commit to it, there's a lot of money to be made. question is, if it's really even ready for that kind of rollout, does it function well enough to justify that kind of cost?

Considering Shalamar's post above stating his required significant interventions 5 times in 60 miles, does it function well enough even if it were free?

 

[theprestige]

Considering Shalamar's post above stating his required significant interventions 5 times in 60 miles, does it function well enough even if it were free?

For me, intermittent intervention is the worst of both worlds. I need to be fully tuned out, as on a plane, train, or bus, or as a passenger in a car someone else is driving. Or I need to be fully tuned in, fully engaged in driving the car. Passively observing while the car drives itself, supposedly ready to intervene the moment it deviates, pretty much guarantees my mind will be wandering and inattentive at the moment of truth.

With any luck I'll be dead, before continuously driving your own car finally goes out of fashion.

 

[Aridas]

For me, intermittent intervention is the worst of both worlds. I need to be fully tuned out, as on a plane, train, or bus, or as a passenger in a car someone else is driving. Or I need to be fully tuned in, fully engaged in driving the car. Passively observing while the car drives itself, supposedly ready to intervene the moment it deviates, pretty much guarantees my mind will be wandering and inattentive at the moment of truth.

With any luck I'll be dead, before continuously driving your own car finally goes out of fashion.

I think this largely describes me, as well. I don't necessarily need to be fully tuned in, so to speak, but I do need to be in continuous control to keep paying attention to the things I need to be paying attention to, even if I do let my mind wander on longer stretches where I don't need to turn or be as wary of traffic as I pay attention to those things habitually. Needing to passively observe while the car drives itself, supposedly ready to intervene in case of problems, pretty much defeats much of the point of self-driving and would definitely raise the chances of getting into an accident, for me.

 

[Lplus]

For me, intermittent intervention is the worst of both worlds. I need to be fully tuned out, as on a plane, train, or bus, or as a passenger in a car someone else is driving. Or I need to be fully tuned in, fully engaged in driving the car. Passively observing while the car drives itself, supposedly ready to intervene the moment it deviates, pretty much guarantees my mind will be wandering and inattentive at the moment of truth.

With any luck I'll be dead, before continuously driving your own car finally goes out of fashion.

I think this largely describes me, as well. I don't necessarily need to be fully tuned in, so to speak, but I do need to be in continuous control to keep paying attention to the things I need to be paying attention to, even if I do let my mind wander on longer stretches where I don't need to turn or be as wary of traffic as I pay attention to those things habitually. Needing to passively observe while the car drives itself, supposedly ready to intervene in case of problems, pretty much defeats much of the point of self-driving and would definitely raise the chances of getting into an accident, for me.

That would be a "no", then; to which I heartily concur.

 

[lobosrul5]

For me, intermittent intervention is the worst of both worlds. I need to be fully tuned out, as on a plane, train, or bus, or as a passenger in a car someone else is driving. Or I need to be fully tuned in, fully engaged in driving the car. Passively observing while the car drives itself, supposedly ready to intervene the moment it deviates, pretty much guarantees my mind will be wandering and inattentive at the moment of truth.

With any luck I'll be dead, before continuously driving your own car finally goes out of fashion.

I find the lane keeping and distance keeping to be fine on modern cars for rural highways as long as the center stripe is easily visible. I'm still "driving" though, I just don't have that fatigue that creeps in by constantly having to make little course corrections on a long journey. I do not however, see the advantage of Tesla's FSD. I'm nervous enough anytime I'm the passenger with a driver I don't fully trust, or drives more aggressively than I do. Trusting an AI, wherein I'm the one financially responsible if it ***** up? No thanks.

 

[The Don]

For me, intermittent intervention is the worst of both worlds. I need to be fully tuned out, as on a plane, train, or bus, or as a passenger in a car someone else is driving. Or I need to be fully tuned in, fully engaged in driving the car. Passively observing while the car drives itself, supposedly ready to intervene the moment it deviates, pretty much guarantees my mind will be wandering and inattentive at the moment of truth.

With any luck I'll be dead, before continuously driving your own car finally goes out of fashion.

I don't drive so much these days but for the last two years of Daddy Don's life I did a 600 mile round trip 30+ times a year. I used to drive at unsociable hours and in effect as a result I was only partially paying attention too much :I.

Tesla style FSD sounds frightening to me.

 

[theprestige]

I find the lane keeping and distance keeping to be fine on modern cars for rural highways as long as the center stripe is easily visible. I'm still "driving" though, I just don't have that fatigue that creeps in by constantly having to make little course corrections on a long journey.

If you say so. It's the constant little course corrections that keep me alert and engaged with the act of driving. Sitting doing nothing while having to pay attention in case something happens is my personal hell.

 

[lobosrul5]

If you say so. It's the constant little course corrections that keep me alert and engaged with the act of driving. Sitting doing nothing while having to pay attention in case something happens is my personal hell.

I keep an eye on the instrument panel, keep a lookout at any intersections, on ramps etc. But I do stay maybe just a little bit less alert than I would without it. As soon as its city, heavy traffic, or bad weather I'm full alert mode. I'm not trusting something else besides my intuition and reaction time whether that ******* in the other lane is gonna cut in, that actually no I can't go when the light turns green cause this is Albuquerque... etc etc.

 

[Ziggurat]

Two quotes from the Dune series which are relevant today:

"Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them."

"What do such machines really do? They increase the number of things we can do without thinking. Things we do without thinking-there’s the real danger."

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Considering Shalamar's post above stating his required significant interventions 5 times in 60 miles, does it function well enough even if it were free?

But that's why it's being supplied for free - to improve its performance. The more people use it the more data they have to tune the AI. The 'significant interventions' are not bad thing. It will learn from its mistakes.

This thread is about Tesla, but let's not ignore all the other car companies that are working on FSD.

28 Self-Driving Car Companies You Should Know

But of course nobody's excoriating them for advancing driving technology to the next level, because...

 

[Roger Ramjets]

If you say so. It's the constant little course corrections that keep me alert and engaged with the act of driving.

I know what you mean. That's why I swore never to buy a car with automatic transmission.

Cruise control? Dangerous. It's the constant accelerator adjustments as I try to keep the needle exactly on the speed limit that keeps me alert!

I never listen to the radio or use the heater either. One is a distraction, the other makes you sleepy.

My Leaf doesn't have a gear shift so that's one thing that won't keep me alert, but it has something even better - a tired battery that screws up the range indicator. I'm constantly doing sums in my head trying to figure out if I can reach my destination before the battery runs out! Some people think 'range anxiety' is a downside of EVs, but they are wrong. It's actually a safety feature!

Sitting doing nothing while having to pay attention in case something happens is my personal hell.

If you think that's bad, try being a passenger. Nothing worse than constantly paying attention in case something happens, knowing that you can't take over if it does!

 

[Lplus]

But that's why it's being supplied for free - to improve its performance. The more people use it the more data they have to tune the AI. The 'significant interventions' are not bad thing. It will learn from its mistakes.

This thread is about Tesla, but let's not ignore all the other car companies that are working on FSD.

28 Self-Driving Car Companies You Should Know

But of course nobody's excoriating them for advancing driving technology to the next level, because...

Hey, so it kills a few owners whilst our systems are learning, because they weren't as on the ball as they needed to be. Eh, eggs, omlettes etc. What are they complaining about? it's free isn't it? They should have been concentrating!

Do you really think that's an acceptable premise?

 

[dirtywick]

i'm not sure when i consented to being on the same road as this alpha test

 

[Darat]

i'm not sure when i consented to being on the same road as this alpha test

This is the main point for me. Fair enough a Tesla driver making an informed decision if it only affected themselves, when they want to involve the rest of us, not so fair.

 

[erwinl]

But that's why it's being supplied for free - to improve its performance. The more people use it the more data they have to tune the AI. The 'significant interventions' are not bad thing. It will learn from its mistakes.

This thread is about Tesla, but let's not ignore all the other car companies that are working on FSD.

28 Self-Driving Car Companies You Should Know

But of course nobody's excoriating them for advancing driving technology to the next level, because...

Doesn't that mean that the technology as implemented is not mature enough for the streets?
If there is an accident, because of an issue here, who is liable in that case?

There is a reason that in the aircraft business, they train with test pilots, who are often the most experienced pilots you can get.

Personally I don't think the average car driver is on the level of a test driver, no matter how well you tell them to be more vigilant. But these are being used as test drivers. As are the rest of the road users during that time.

 

[dirtywick]

plus, are these other 27 companies testing their fsd on the road? what are they doing that i should be criticizing? if some of these other companies and ceos are making crazy business moves and publicly humiliating themselves, i'd love nothing more than to hear about it.

 

[jeremyp]

But that's why it's being supplied for free

It's not being supplied for free, it's a free trial.

- to improve its performance.

By "its performance" you mean Tesla's financial performance. If they can get 100,000 people to stump up the $12k, that's a reasonable wedge of cash.

The more people use it the more data they have to tune the AI. The 'significant interventions' are not bad thing. It will learn from its mistakes.

This thread is about Tesla, but let's not ignore all the other car companies that are working on FSD.

28 Self-Driving Car Companies You Should Know

But of course nobody's excoriating them for advancing driving technology to the next level, because...

Nobody else is selling beta software that could kill people at $12k a pop. Other companies are significantly more truthful about the capabilities of their software and significantly more responsible about the way they test it.