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Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

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More or less capable than a firefighter actually on the scene?

Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire. It was one of their crew who took this picture.


Harpenden Fire Stn picture r by Username Vixen, on Flickr
 
People who work in the motor industry are perfectly capable of knowing the difference between a diesel fire, an electrical fire and a lithium battery fire.

Since I've worked in the industry for almost 28 years, then you'll believe me when I tell you that it wasn't an electrical fire. In fact. I've worked at facilities that make all electric cars for about the past 8.
 
Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire. It was one of their crew who took this picture.


[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53581133630_2fccb9385f.jpg[/qimg]Harpenden Fire Stn picture r by Username Vixen, on Flickr

Who was told by these "off the record firefighters"?
If they think the fire service statement saying it wasn't an EV is a lie why don't they speak out?
 
Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire. It was one of their crew who took this picture.


[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53581133630_2fccb9385f.jpg[/qimg]Harpenden Fire Stn picture r by Username Vixen, on Flickr


How many cars in this picture are burning?

Which ones are EVs?

Did these supposed firefighters see the car that started the blaze burning by itself before the fire spread?

What’s the source of these reports?
 
Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire. It was one of their crew who took this picture.


[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53581133630_2fccb9385f.jpg[/qimg]Harpenden Fire Stn picture r by Username Vixen, on Flickr

I wonder why they ("firefighters", plural) did not report on the record. I also wonder why firefighters from other regions did not report the same.

Photos posted on the internet these days by someone trying to prove a point are always, shall we say, suspect until their authenticity is independently verified.
 
Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire. It was one of their crew who took this picture.
Nice bit of insinuation, there, implying the photo somehow supported the unsourced statement. The photo was published in the Daily Mail, among other places. What is the source for the comment?

What was the exact quote? Was it about the diesel car where the fire started, or the overall blaze, which almost certainly included at least one EV on the balance of probabilities? Was it simply a comment that the fire looked similar to one involving a lithium-ion battery, or was it a claim that the fire must have started in an EV?
 
You can't see it when you are within it. If you want to discuss this further, then please open a thread.
Perfectly okay to discuss it here, as it goes to the "evidence" you want to introduce to support your position.

I will say for avoidance of doubt that I know exactly how it works. I was a 'suit' and a haughty schoolgirl myself. I walked into jobs without even being barely interviewed.
That's more to do with upper management, most likely being upper-middle class themselves, picking a grammar school candidate over others of supposedly lower classes. Just the opposite of what you've been arguing. (Not entirely relevant, but you might also want to have a look at the grammar of that last sentence, I'm sure your Grammar school English teacher would have been appalled.)

Where I live now, a car mechanic with years of experience in the car industry would be treated respectfully and his opinion treated likewise. Only in the UK do people sneer, 'What are his qualifications?' (code for is he astablishment?).

Actually, "what are their qualifications?" is a perfectly valid question when someone is opining outside their actual field of experience or expertise. How many full on vehicle fires does the average car mechanic see or have to deal with during their career? I'll take the testimony of someone who has direct experience of a lot of vehicle fires or has made an academic study of such fires as more authoritative.

Similarly, although firefighters deal with a lot of vehicle fires, I wouldn't trust a firefighter to fix my car unless they could show me that they had relevant qualifications. No thanks, I'll go to my local garage who I know have highly qualified car mechanics and years of experience fixing cars.

I respect the ability and knowledge of people within their field of direct expertise.

What made me see the light? We had a supply teacher for maths when the usual one was away for some reason. To my shame, my class mocked him and refused to take him seriously because he had what was considered a 'common' accent. He left a nervous wreck after one term. When I chatted to someone in later years about Mr. Tyler (sorry, Mr. Tyler!) they said, actually, he was a really good teacher, he really knew his stuff.

Thank you for once again giving us an example (and merely anecdotal at that) of "upper class" people looking down their noses at "lower class" people. Nothing to do with "lower classes" showing deference to "upper classes".

Not to mention the fact that your anecdotes are some 40 to 50 years out of date.

By way of counterpoint, I offer my own purely anecdotal evidence, from the opposite side of the class divide.

I went to a state comprehensive, and one of our supply teachers had a decidedly "posh" accent. He was mercilessly teased and didn't even last a term. Another teacher we had was mercilessly teased for having a lisp, whilst yet another for being bald.

What do these anecdotes have in common with your anecdote?
They are all about ineffectual teachers being unable to control a class full of schoolkids. And my first one shows that there is no special deference for the "upper classes" from the "lower classes", so at least that anecdote was relevant to your basic argument, unlike your anecdote.

So, yeah, this very British idea that people commenting in the DM or youtube as experienced people in the car industry for years can be safely ignored and we should obey the command of someone writing copy instead to stop speculating the fire at Luton Airport car park was a lithium-ion one, is based on pure snobbery IMV.
Nope. It's based on relevant experience and relevant qualifications.
 
Hell, I'm middle class and in one of my schools I was made fun of for being posh by the council estate kids.

The idea that the working class defer to the upper class is laughable.
 
People who work in the motor industry are perfectly capable of knowing the difference between a diesel fire, an electrical fire and a lithium battery fire.

Exactly. Just like estate agents and their expertise in investigating house fires, or travel agents and their special insight into the cause of plane crashes. It's just common sense. Stands to reason.
 
Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire. It was one of their crew who took this picture.


[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53581133630_2fccb9385f.jpg[/qimg]Harpenden Fire Stn picture r by Username Vixen, on Flickr

That's some pretty weak barrel-scraping you're doing now. "...were reported off the record" is basically just a conspiratorial dressing on "some bloke down the pub reckons..." and it might be helpful to think about how many cars were already ablaze when the Luton fire brigade got there, and then how many cars were already ablaze when the Harpenden fire brigade got there.

When you've looked at the photo you posted and had a little think about that stuff, ask yourself what value there is in an anonymous claim that Harpenden fire fighters thought there was a lithium battery fire somewhere in the coflagration.

It's uttery worthless. Even if the Harpenden brigade have an infallible nose for lithium fires, there were inevitably multiple cars of every fuel type including EVs already cheerfully ablaze when they turned up.
 
You can't see it when you are within it.

No, you're not some brilliant commentator with special insight.

Only in the UK do people sneer, 'What are his qualifications?' (code for is he astablishment?).

Wrong. When people say they know what they're talking about and that we should just trust their judgment, every skeptic in the world rises up with the same question: "How do you know that?" And not, it's not "code" for anything, although you seem to have indirectly answered Mark's question whether you believe genuine expertise exists.

In my profession I'm required to perform due diligence on all my employees whom I put forward as subject-matter experts. When we address a safety or correctness concern by saying that an SME has applied his judgment to say it's okay to proceed, we are on the hook to have laid that foundation.

And guess that the profession is? The one you're pretending to lecture everyone about.

What made me see the light?

Nothing. You have no special insight. Vixensplaining via another color anecdote doesn't cut it.

So, yeah, this very British idea [...] is based on pure snobbery IMV.

Nope. You have a well established habit of grabbing the first source that seems to say what you need to have said, without regard for whether it's credible, or even whether you've read it. And now you're frantically trying to shame people into accepting a talking head on YouTube as having more experience and better judgment than the people who actually are going to be held accountable for finding out what happened.
 
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People who work in the motor industry are perfectly capable of knowing the difference between a diesel fire, an electrical fire and a lithium battery fire.

This is not a categorical argument.

You present a specific person as an expert without having done the slightest thing to determine whether he's a subject-matter expert in the investigation of vehicle fires and therefore whether his opinion on the subject has any evidentiary value.

But if you want to stick to the categorical argument, we can point to the category of "people with a YouTube channel." Some of them, in my experience, know what they're talking about, but very many don't. What they have in common, though, is that they all talk very confidently on camera and face an ongoing need to provide whatever content they can come up with. And this seems to be the only qualification you relied upon.

There is also the category of "people Vixen has proffered as experts," which over the years has included obvious crackpots. The common factor in that category, however, is your intellectual inability to determine whether they actually have the knowledge and background they claim. You simply don't appear to have the mental faculties required to determine who is actually qualified or trustworthy. Either that or disinterest, which is worse.
 
I walked into jobs without even being barely interviewed.

Out of curiosity, where these the jobs you identified to us in your other threads as evidence that you had the academic and professional qualifications you sometimes claim, because otherwise how could you have obtained them?
 
So it was a diesel Discovery now was it? That is not what catsmate claims. Citation please. W a i t i n g...
Yes, it was a diesel Discovery. I know that you are pathologically incapable of admitting you are wrong, but it has been reported by the investigators of that incident that it was a diesel vehicle. Complaining that they didn't say "Simon sez it was a diesel car" doesn't make you any less wrong.

Please stop with yet another straw man. I have never claimed that a derv doesn't burn fiercely when ablaze. However, when you switch off the ignition, do you expect it to catch fire whilst you are asleep in your bed? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.
I don't expect any vehicle to catch fire when it is turned off. But the fact remains that many gas and diesel vehicles do catch fire when they are not running.

And what was all that effort to convince us that the vehicle that started the fire at the Luton garage had to be an EV because of the way it was burning if not an attempt to convince us that a diesel car doesn't burn that fiercely. You spent many pages claiming that it was unthinkable for a diesel car to even catch fire.

It is a fact that lithium-ion car battery fires are a nightmare for firefighters. Why even bother disputing that?
Because it's your own hyperbole. Spraying water on an EV longer than a gasoline car to keep the fire contained isn't a "nightmare". We've covered plenty of evidence that EV fires are no more intense than gas or diesel fires, that they aren't more likely to catch fire, and that the primary difference, from a firefighting standpoint, is that they can take longer to extinguish. One of my cousins was the captain of a firehouse in northwest Illinois, and he said the way to deal with an EV fire was just to keep pumping water on it until it went out. What source are you citing for your "nightmare" claim, a car salesman or a parking garage attendant?
 
Also you do realise that the idea that the British defer to the upper class is laughably inaccurate right?

I'm sure there are those like that but I've never met one and I lived most of my life in one of the most rural parts of the shires.

Now pull the other one. Next you'll be telling us that the Germans aren't all humorless robots, and that Canadians don't all wear flannel shirts and suspenders.
 
Firefighters from nearby Harpenden (there were firefighters from several regions helping to control the blaze) were reported off the record to have said it looked like a lithium-ion fire.
Reported by whom? Reported by commenters on the Daily Mail website?

It's been said that Daily Mail commenters have reported off the record that they poop in the shower and push it down the drain with their toes.

See how easily that was? And yet it's no more solid evidence than your "off the record" claim, or you fantasy statement by Sunak. If you had any evidence you wouldn't need to resort to such things. But, again, you can't admit you're wrong.
 
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