Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

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Vixen said:
From the TIMES:

The agency did not attribute fault to the batteries, which are supplied by BYD, the giant Chinese electric vehicle maker which overtook Tesla’s sales last year. It said that a temporary fix was to turn off the Hispacold HVAC system when the vehicle was left unattended.

Electric bus fires burn very intensely and are difficult to extinguish. The blaze is caused by a chemical reaction which also emits flammable toxic gases.

The DVSA issued the recall notice on January 31. Transport for London (TfL) said that it had more than 600 of the buses, about 10 per cent of its entire fleet, but that their withdrawal had not affected its services.
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Where do you get the impression it is not potentially dangerous to leave these buses unattended and that a temporary 'solution' is to switch off the HVAC. No, they do not mention the batteries because the batteries are fine ...until they catch fire! We are not allowed to mention the dangers of this type of combustion, hence it is couched in terms of 'something else'.
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Do you know what else is fine until it catches fire? Diesel oil. A typical diesel urban bus has about 6 times as much diesel in a full tank as the diesel Discovery that caused the Luton airport parking garage fire.

This is the 75th page of a thread that has demonstrated many times that EV battery fires aren't some sort of science fiction radioactive meltdown scenario - that they are no more intense than gasoline or diesel fires, but tend to be harder to extinguish. Your continued insistence that Li-ion battery fires burn with some sort of super-fire reminds me of people who are worried about the "radiation" from cell phones while sitting under clusters of incandescent light bulbs.
 
Foster Zygote said:
Do you know what else is fine until it catches fire? Diesel oil. A typical diesel urban bus has about 6 times as much diesel in a full tank as the diesel Discovery that caused the Luton airport parking garage fire.

This is the 75th page of a thread that has demonstrated many times that EV battery fires aren't some sort of science fiction radioactive meltdown scenario - that they are no more intense than gasoline or diesel fires, but tend to be harder to extinguish. Your continued insistence that Li-ion battery fires burn with some sort of super-fire reminds me of people who are worried about the "radiation" from cell phones while sitting under clusters of incandescent light bulbs.
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I think Vixen knows that, probably why she likes to remain in the dark.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Not what was asked and again, the fault is not with the battery but the heating system.

You are adding your own conspiracy gibberish yet again.
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For crying out loud. You claim to work for Tfl and yet you didn't know that it withdrew 600 of its electric buses. The issue with the buses was the integrated electrical system, which meant that owing to a fault in the HVAC, there was an observable danger that one of these buses could catch fire unattended. A temporary solution has been suggested that the bus driver, after switching off the ignition, now should also pull out various bits of the HVAC wiring to mitigate against the risk of the bus going up in flames (see Wimbledon bus, cited earlier by a poster). Your pretending this is not at all dangerous is disingenuous to say the least.

Each of these buses costs £400,000 so that is an expensive mistake.

Notandum: as an aside, I was in London recently and these buses are so cheaply made I could barely get my legs in and had to perform advanced yoga just to sit down.
 
Foster Zygote said:
Do you know what else is fine until it catches fire? Diesel oil. A typical diesel urban bus has about 6 times as much diesel in a full tank as the diesel Discovery that caused the Luton airport parking garage fire.

This is the 75th page of a thread that has demonstrated many times that EV battery fires aren't some sort of science fiction radioactive meltdown scenario - that they are no more intense than gasoline or diesel fires, but tend to be harder to extinguish. Your continued insistence that Li-ion battery fires burn with some sort of super-fire reminds me of people who are worried about the "radiation" from cell phones while sitting under clusters of incandescent light bulbs.
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So it was a diesel Discovery now was it? That is not what catsmate claims. Citation please. W a i t i n g...


Please stop with yet another straw man. I have never claimed that a derv doesn't burn fiercely when ablaze. However, when you switch off the ignition, do you expect it to catch fire whilst you are asleep in your bed? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.

It is a fact that lithium-ion car battery fires are a nightmare for firefighters. Why even bother disputing that?
 
Vixen said:
..The issue with the buses was the integrated electrical system, which meant that owing to a fault in the HVAC, there was an observable danger that one of these buses could catch fire unattended. A temporary solution has been suggested that the bus driver, after switching off the ignition, now should also pull out various bits of the HVAC wiring to mitigate against the risk of the bus going up in flames...
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Got a source for that? I only ask because this report contradicts what you claim:

Route One Magazine said:
...An under-development permanent fix will be introduced to deal with the problem. DVSA’s recall listing service shows that it affects 1,758 buses produced by the BYD Alexander Dennis partnership. In the meantime, operators have been advised to ensure that the Hispacold HVAC system is switched off when those vehicles are left unattended.

Alexander Dennis has confirmed that the issue does not affect driveline components, including traction batteries and motors, and that it is not related to recent battery-electric bus fires that affected vehicles from other manufacturers...
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Highlighting mine
 
Vixen said:
So it was a diesel Discovery now was it? That is not what catsmate claims. Citation please. W a i t i n g...


Please stop with yet another straw man. I have never claimed that a derv doesn't burn fiercely when ablaze. However, when you switch off the ignition, do you expect it to catch fire whilst you are asleep in your bed? A simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.

It is a fact that lithium-ion car battery fires are a nightmare for firefighters. Why even bother disputing that?
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Diesel and gas vehicles have been recalled multiple times for fires that can occur when parked.
 
Disbelief said:
Diesel and gas vehicles have been recalled multiple times for fires that can occur when parked.
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Literally every wheeled motor vehicle fire I've been personally involved with has been in a parked vehicle with the ignition switched off. The fuels involved included diesel, gasoline, and liquid methane. Potential chemical energy is potential chemical energy—full stop.
 
Vixen said:
... A temporary solution has been suggested that the bus driver, after switching off the ignition, now should also pull out various bits of the HVAC wiring...
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Ignition? Why would an EV need an ignition system?

And why did you make up that nonsense about pulling wires off? Does your car require you to pull wires off to turn off the aircon? Nor does anyone else's. The advice is to switch it off. The key word is "switch".
 
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junkshop said:
Got a source for that? I only ask because this report contradicts what you claim:




Highlighting mine
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Alexander Dennis supplier of the said buses? That one? 'Switch off the HVAC when leaving the bus unattended'. What does that even mean as surely a warning beep goes off if you fail to switch everything off or not shut the doors properly. The London buses make a terrific racket whilst lowering the ramp for wheelchairs. So the issue with the HVAC is a lot more than just 'switch it off', it means it has to be literally disabled in an extraordinary measure, user manual required as to how to do this.

Deeply reassuring to the public, I am sure.

"Well he would, wouldn't he?" ~ Mandy Rice-Davies
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Ignition? Why would an EV need an ignition system?

And why did you make up that nonsense about pulling wires off? Does your car require you to pull wires off to turn off the aircon? Nor does anyone else's. The advice is to switch it off. The key word is "switch".
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BUS DRIVER: Hello, can you get here quick? My bus is on fire.

FIRE OFFICER: Have you tried switching it off and switching it back on again?
 
Vixen said:
Alexander Dennis supplier of the said buses? That one?...
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Your link:
Linkedin said:
This page doesn't exist
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So I can't comment on this question, except to note the url contains 'enviro500', so even if I could access it, I don't see it's relevancy to this conversation about enviro 400 buses.


Vixen said:
...'Switch off the HVAC when leaving the bus unattended'. What does that even mean as surely a warning beep goes off if you fail to switch everything off or not shut the doors properly...
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I wouldn't know, I'm not a bus driver. I ask again, do you have a source to support your claim that the driver "should also pull out various bits of the HVAC wiring"?

Vixen said:
...The London buses make a terrific racket whilst lowering the ramp for wheelchairs...
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Utterly irrelevant twaddle, try to retain focus.

Vixen said:
...So the issue with the HVAC is a lot more than just 'switch it off', it means it has to be literally disabled in an extraordinary measure...
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Citation needed.

I asked if you had a source for your claims in post #1184. You haven't answered that question. Please answer that question.
 
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Passer by: "Hey, Vixen, you've left your lights on."
FX: Vixen returns to car, while fumbling in her bag for wire cutters.
 
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