Cont: Musk buys Twitter II

[catsmate]

That is wrong at every level. You have no interest at all in a debate.

The hypocrisy, it burns.

 

[Aridas]

For me, the debate is this….

You clearly need some kinds of terms of service if you want a functioning platform that will attract enough people.

If you really want anyone to be able to spout anything at all within the law (as first amendment absolutists claim they want) then you can have it, but it is likely to drive people away.

For example, it is not illegal to be personally abusive, homophobic, racist, sexist and transphobic. Do you want the platform to be okay with that or even to incentivize that, or perhaps be agnostic about how much those views can be made viiral? If so, you should realize that some people will not want to be on the receiving end of that and advertisers have no obligation to pay their money to put their products alongside that. To say otherwise is to oppose the very same first amendment that Musk and his followers claim Twitter is now upholding.

Look at places like Gab and Parler. They uphold these standards and most people want nothing to do with it.

You have to accept that if people can choose how much toxicity they want in their lives then they can opt out and don’t have to submit to those who think it is fun to subject it to others.

To chime in here a little - the things that you point out here are absolutely one of the directions included in the generality about the real harms of excessive tolerance of intolerance that I pointed out. I don't consider them the only direction, but that doesn't lessen how relevant and meaningful such is, especially when it comes to the actual driving forces behind why Twitter, as a business, took action against those that Samson is intent upon claiming as wronged.

So try to realize that I’m not shutting Musk down. I’m not shutting down people he associates with. There is a difference between that and people deciding to vote with their feet.

As for me, I'm not interested in shutting Musk down, either. That doesn't mean that I'm at all appreciative of decisions that sabotage free speech in practice being touted as if they somehow benefit free speech by using superficial pretexts. Nor am I appreciative of a long pattern of attempts to blame anyone else on the slightest pretexts for the entirely predictable consequences of one's own actions.

 

[varwoche]

Are alternate views to yours allowed?
You need a more secure echo chamber.

Both you and Musk have made it abundantly clear that your free speech advocacy is 200 proof hypocrisy. Need I remind you of the particulars (concerning Media Matters)?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I tried for a neutral tone expecting the pile on.

If you were going for that you'd have described Shapiro as "an idiot's idea of what a smart person talks like".

 

[Samson]

Both you and Musk have made it abundantly clear that your free speech advocacy is 200 proof hypocrisy. Need I remind you of the particulars (concerning Media Matters)?

Another way to consider Musk and X is the utilitarian principle, the greatest good for the greatest number. Dorsey banned hundreds of people for using words that mainstream thinkers now consider valid pushback against ideologies. Should these people still be silenced?
X is the only platform used by many people whose work I agree with. They may be dead wrong, as might I.
We might even know in the future, now these people have a platform they are comfortable with.
Does this mean they are nazis, bigots, and racists?
No, clearly not.

 

[lobosrul5]

Another way to consider Musk and X is the utilitarian principle, the greatest good for the greatest number. Dorsey banned hundreds of people for using words that mainstream thinkers now consider valid pushback against ideologies. Should these people still be silenced?
X is the only platform used by many people whose work I agree with. They may be dead wrong, as might I.
We might even know in the future, now these people have a platform they are comfortable with.
Does this mean they are nazis, bigots, and racists? No, clearly not.

Yes, the Nazis, bigots, and racists on Twitter/x are in fact Nazis, bigots, and racists.

 

[varwoche]

Another way to consider Musk and X is the utilitarian principle, the greatest good for the greatest number. Dorsey banned hundreds of people for using words that mainstream thinkers now consider valid pushback against ideologies. Should these people still be silenced?
X is the only platform used by many people whose work I agree with. They may be dead wrong, as might I.
We might even know in the future, now these people have a platform they are comfortable with.
Does this mean they are nazis, bigots, and racists?
No, clearly not.

Utterly irrelevant to Musk's (and your) hypocrisy concerning Media Matters.

 

[Samson]

Utterly irrelevant to Musk's (and your) hypocrisy concerning Media Matters.

Musk in the interview says he is a Jew and most of the people he hangs out with are Jews. This is an unlikely formulation for an anti semite.
So I consider his triggering post should be interpreted his way, and not as by that simpering idiot from Disney.
I have not done any deep dive, so I could be wrong, he may be a diehard anti Semite.

 

[Darat]

Another way to consider Musk and X is the utilitarian principle, the greatest good for the greatest number. Dorsey banned hundreds of people for using words that mainstream thinkers now consider valid pushback against ideologies. Should these people still be silenced?
X is the only platform used by many people whose work I agree with. They may be dead wrong, as might I

...snip....

We know - you agree with the changes that allow Nazis back because you are fine with having their support for your obsession.

 

[Darat]

Musk in the interview says he is a Jew and most of the people he hangs out with are Jews. This is an unlikely formulation for an anti semite.
So I consider his triggering post should be interpreted his way, and not as by that simpering idiot from Disney.
I have not done any deep dive, so I could be wrong, he may be a diehard anti Semite.

Does he have many black friends as well?

 

[gabeygoat]

Another way to consider Musk and X is the utilitarian principle, the greatest good for the greatest number. Dorsey banned hundreds of people for using words that mainstream thinkers now consider valid pushback against ideologies. Should these people still be silenced?
X is the only platform used by many people whose work I agree with. They may be dead wrong, as might I.
We might even know in the future, now these people have a platform they are comfortable with.
Does this mean they are nazis, bigots, and racists?
No, clearly not.

It's the opposite of Utilitarian. Adding back a couple hundred bigots to the detriment of far more users isn't Utilitarian.

 

[varwoche]

Musk in the interview says he is a Jew and most of the people he hangs out with are Jews. This is an unlikely formulation for an anti semite.
So I consider his triggering post should be interpreted his way, and not as by that simpering idiot from Disney.
I have not done any deep dive, so I could be wrong, he may be a diehard anti Semite.

You apparently do need a reminder, because the cryptic things you're posting are entirely irrelevant.

Media Matters truthfully documented nazi content on X. Musk melted down and sued them. You cheered Musk on.

No free speech for Media Matters in the world according to you and Musk.

 

[angrysoba]

Musk in the interview says he is a Jew and most of the people he hangs out with are Jews. This is an unlikely formulation for an anti semite.
So I consider his triggering post should be interpreted his way, and not as by that simpering idiot from Disney.
I have not done any deep dive, so I could be wrong, he may be a diehard anti Semite.

But he is not Jewish.

Pushing back against accusations of antisemitism, Elon Musk has in recent months visited Israel, hosted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at a Tesla factory in California and repeatedly insisted he bears no animus toward Jews.

On Monday, he took his penitence tour to a new level, declaring himself “aspirationally Jewish” after a visit to the former Nazi death camp Auschwitz in southern Poland, where he lit a candle in memory of the millions of Jews murdered in the Holocaust.

Link

Speaking later at a conference on antisemitism organized by the association in the nearby Polish city of Krakow, Mr. Musk said he had been “somewhat naïve” about the dangers posed by anti-Jewish sentiment because “in the circles I move in, I see no antisemitism.”
“Two-thirds of my friends are Jewish,” he said. “I’m Jewish by association. I’m aspirationally Jewish.”

Honestly, he sounds like a moron for saying stuff like this. Was he "somewhat naive", and did he "see no antisemitism"? He explicitly endorsed explicitly anti-semitic claims about the machinations of the Jews. To then say he is "aspirationally Jewish" probably doesn't do Jews many favours does it?

 

[Aridas]

Musk in the interview says he is a Jew and most of the people he hangs out with are Jews. This is an unlikely formulation for an anti semite.

Before anything else, thank you for actually stating an argument that you found worthwhile, rather than telling us to watch a fairly long video.

With that said, it may be an unlikely formulation, if true, but hardly impossible. Much like black and brown people supporting white supremacism is unlikely, but does happen. That "if true" caveat seems to very much be in question. It's possible that he's technically Jewish by bloodline, if the rumors about his maternal grandmother being Jewish are true. There's not really much reason to believe that he has any claim beyond that tenuous claim, if he even has that, though.

So I consider his triggering post should be interpreted his way, and not as by that simpering idiot from Disney.

Unfortunately, it's an unreasonable stretch to treat it as anything else, even if he were a Jew and hangs out with Jews.

I have not done any deep dive, so I could be wrong, he may be a diehard anti Semite.

I'm doubtful that "diehard anti-Semite" is a perfectly accurate description of Musk, personally. That's still largely irrelevant, though. The larger issue is that Musk not only actively worked to enable anti-semites and antisemitism structurally, he chose to personally amplify their voices of hateful BS. This is a situation that Musk absolutely bears responsibility for. So long as he refuses to take responsibility and keeps trying to blame everyone else for somehow wronging him, I have no interest whatsoever in listening to his attempts to dodge responsibility.

 

[dirtywick]

he's not jewish he was just talking stupid after visiting israel

 

[Wudang]

“Two-thirds of my friends are Jewish,” he said. “I’m Jewish by association. I’m aspirationally Jewish.”

So he self-identifies as Jewish?

 

[Darat]

So he self-identifies as Jewish?

Growing up he always thought he was born in the wrong religion.

 

[Samson]

You apparently do need a reminder, because the cryptic things you're posting are entirely irrelevant.

Media Matters truthfully documented nazi content on X. Musk melted down and sued them. You cheered Musk on.

No free speech for Media Matters in the world according to you and Musk.

Musk sued them when he assembled evidence it was creative association of Nazi material with the big advertisers. Presumably the case will be heard, he will be found wrong or right.
It is an interesting case, meat and drink for this forum.

 

[Darat]

Musk sued them when he assembled evidence it was creative association of Nazi material with the big advertisers. Presumably the case will be heard, he will be found wrong or right.
It is an interesting case, meat and drink for this forum.

Why does he want to shutdown Media Matters free speech if he is an advocate for free speech. His legal suit admits the screen grabs were not faked.

Again his actual actions rather than his words demonstrate his words are lies.

 

[Samson]

Why does he want to shutdown Media Matters free speech if he is an advocate for free speech. His legal suit admits the screen grabs were not faked.

Again his actual actions rather than his words demonstrate his words are lies.

My sense is media matters is lock step with disinformation
Projects.
Who are against free speech.
500k to Jacinda Ardern annually to continue her vendetta against questioners of Islam is a classic example.
I believe Musk. I believe he wants more speech not less speech.
Speech is the 4th singularity, let us be excited by it prior to succumbing to the Taliban, Xi Peng, Putin and so on.
I am convinced Musk is at the other end of the see saw.