Merged why the release of names associated with Epstein mean little to absolutely nothing.

To me this is the perfect witch hunt but the worse the offense is perceived to be the less evidence the public expects.

I get that the circumstances with high profile clients and all makes this case special, but clients for what? He was a billionaire and philanthropist besides being a sex trafficker. I would bet he had more associates due to the first two roles. But it seems people are in a frenzy over anybody and their mother connected with Epstein. It's insane to me. We don't do this with almost any other criminal or dictator or general bad guy.
 
Ziggurat said:
And what involvement do you actually think Trump had with Epstein? Do you really think it was ever anything more than rubbing shoulders at rich people events? If so, on what basis?
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Trump hosted an exclusive party at Mar a Lago where a couple dozen young women were flown in to participate in a "calendar girl competition".

How exclusive? Trump, Epstein and the women.

No, that's not merely rubbing shoulders at a rich person event.
 
varwoche said:
Trump hosted an exclusive party at Mar a Lago where a couple dozen young women were flown in to participate in a "calendar girl competition".

How exclusive? Trump, Epstein and the women.

No, that's not merely rubbing shoulders at a rich person event.
Click to expand...

Please tell me you have a link to this story, because that'd honestly make my weekend.
 
Venom said:
To me this is the perfect witch hunt but the worse the offense is perceived to be the less evidence the public expects.

I get that the circumstances with high profile clients and all makes this case special, but clients for what? He was a billionaire and philanthropist besides being a sex trafficker. I would bet he had more associates due to the first two roles. But it seems people are in a frenzy over anybody and their mother connected with Epstein. It's insane to me. We don't do this with almost any other criminal or dictator or general bad guy.
Click to expand...

When Harvey Weinstein was publicly outed, no one in Hollywood was saying "I never would have guessed ". Kind of difficult, I'd imagine, to keep that kind of behavior under wraps very long. Same with Epstein. He was openly trafficking young girls to the degree that they joked about it, Lolita Express and all that. So it's +/- fair to assume that anyone who got within arms reach of him knew what he was all about, and apparently didn't object.
 
GrandMasterFox said:
Dershowitz was not mentioned as someone just flying with Epstein. He was named as someone involved with the underage victims.

One even mentions his name on air during Filthy Rich that she had sex with him. ...
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Dershowitz admitted to getting a massage from one of the young ladies.
 
Mike! said:
Please tell me you have a link to this story, because that'd honestly make my weekend.
Click to expand...
I should have included the link.
It was supposed to be an exclusive party at Mar-a-Lago, Donald J. Trump’s members-only club in Palm Beach, Fla. But other than the two dozen or so women flown in to provide the entertainment, the only guests were Mr. Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.
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NYT paywall.
 
Venom said:
To me this is the perfect witch hunt but the worse the offense is perceived to be the less evidence the public expects.

I get that the circumstances with high profile clients and all makes this case special, but clients for what? He was a billionaire and philanthropist besides being a sex trafficker. I would bet he had more associates due to the first two roles. But it seems people are in a frenzy over anybody and their mother connected with Epstein. It's insane to me. We don't do this with almost any other criminal or dictator or general bad guy.
Click to expand...

looks like they'll have to investigate it and figure it out and tell everyone who did what and who didn't
 
varwoche said:
I should have included the link.
​
NYT paywall.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the story isn't true, but your cite is embarrassing. Here's the part you should have quoted, where the NYT "substantiates" the claim:
The year was 1992 and the event was a “calendar girl” competition, something that George Houraney, a Florida-based businessman who ran American Dream Enterprise, had organized at Mr. Trump’s request.

“I arranged to have some contestants fly in,” Mr. Houraney recalled in an interview on Monday. “At the very first party, I said, ‘Who’s coming tonight? I have 28 girls coming.’ It was him and Epstein.”

Mr. Houraney, who had just partnered with Mr. Trump to host events at his casinos, said he was surprised. “I said, ‘Donald, this is supposed to be a party with V.I.P.s. You’re telling me it’s you and Epstein?’”

In fact, that was the case [...]

https://archive.is/4ZH0j#selection-383.0-401.26​
Emphasis mine.

In fact, the NYT provides zero corroboration for this story. No other sources are quoted. No other witnesses are interviewed. A guy says something titillating about the media sensation of the moment, and "the newspaper of record" runs with it on his say-so alone.

"In fact", my ass. This is journalistic nonsense.
 
Ziggurat said:
I don't find it credible that the FBI doesn't know who most of those perps are.
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There is a difference between likely knowing something and actually having evidence for it.

The FBI cannot and should not have an ability to just point a finger at someone and yell "we think they had sex with underage girls" without proper evidence and procedure to back it up.
 
Thermal said:
When Harvey Weinstein was publicly outed, no one in Hollywood was saying "I never would have guessed "
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Bad analogy. Weinstein was an absolutely known thing - in fact he actually had clauses in his contracts about it.

It was also mostly assumed that he was basically doing casting couches - which involved (as far as I know) actual adult women which isn't as problematic as underage ones.

Allegations of actual rape came much much later and that were not known or believed at first.


On the other hand, Epstein actions were much darker involving actual human trafficking of minors. It's far less acceptable and he took great precautions to cover it up.

Weinstein did it in his work environment while Epstein had to fly private jets to private exclusive resorts and was grooming the victims for a while - which is even more than the DEN creeps did.


I can absolutely believe that more people knew about Weinstein than Epstein.
 
Speaking of the list, the one name I'm wondering in what context was it mentioned but cannot find a confirmation anywhere is -

Kevin Spacey

For the obvious reasons, I doubt he took place in anything with underage women. So I'm assuming his mention isn't related, but just curious what the reason will turn out to be.
 
It would seem that for all intents and purposes, these lists are just about useless at sheeting home specific depraved behaviour to specific people. Much as I expect Donny frequently partook of many tender party favours, this is not enough to pin him down.
 
theprestige said:
I'm not saying the story isn't true, but your cite is embarrassing. Here's the part you should have quoted, where the NYT "substantiates" the claim:
The year was 1992 and the event was a “calendar girl” competition, something that George Houraney, a Florida-based businessman who ran American Dream Enterprise, had organized at Mr. Trump’s request.

“I arranged to have some contestants fly in,” Mr. Houraney recalled in an interview on Monday. “At the very first party, I said, ‘Who’s coming tonight? I have 28 girls coming.’ It was him and Epstein.”

Mr. Houraney, who had just partnered with Mr. Trump to host events at his casinos, said he was surprised. “I said, ‘Donald, this is supposed to be a party with V.I.P.s. You’re telling me it’s you and Epstein?’”

In fact, that was the case [...]

https://archive.is/4ZH0j#selection-383.0-401.26​
Emphasis mine.

In fact, the NYT provides zero corroboration for this story. No other sources are quoted. No other witnesses are interviewed. A guy says something titillating about the media sensation of the moment, and "the newspaper of record" runs with it on his say-so alone.

"In fact", my ass. This is journalistic nonsense.
Click to expand...
Massive over-reaction. As the organizer for the event, Houraney was well situated to be in the know. Sure, it's always better to have multiple sources. But that's not always possible. This article was written many years after the event, and it's not as if Trump or Epstein could be relied upon.
 
dirtywick said:
looks like they'll have to investigate it and figure it out and tell everyone who did what and who didn't
Click to expand...

Of course. This should be processed like any other criminal investigation and so far it is.

My only issue from a skeptic's perspective is the public hysteria of the thought of anybody having had coffee with Epstein's dog. It goes hand in hand with "Epstein didn't kill himself" and general anti-elitist conspiracism. You can't have a normal conversation about this case when someone brings it up IRL from my experience.
 
Venom said:
Of course. This should be processed like any other criminal investigation and so far it is.

My only issue from a skeptic's perspective is the public hysteria of the thought of anybody having had coffee with Epstein's dog. It goes hand in hand with "Epstein didn't kill himself" and general anti-elitist conspiracism. You can't have a normal conversation about this case when someone brings it up IRL from my experience.
Click to expand...

i think that's the power of the public hysteria surrounding it. it can't be forgotten about and dragged out forever, they have to investigate it

i mean, i'm happy to speculate on who did what until then. these guys want their names cleared, then clear them.
 
Ziggurat said:
Sure, but I also have a hard time believing they don't have evidence.
Click to expand...

Why? What evidence could they have?

Victim testimony - May not be possible depending on how many of them are willing to come forward and be ripped to shreds by opposing lawyers and be publicly attacked or sanctioned.

The number of women who were willing to go on camera seems much lower than the number of actual victims involved.

Heck, the conspiracy theories on Epstein's suicide would be more than enough to silence a lot of people who didn't want to have a similar fate - whether it's true or not.





Other than that? If Epstein had it videotaped or Maxwell have an official black book we would have heard it by now.


So what sort of evidence could there possibly be?
 
emails and texts arranging or discussing anything, and financial documents tracking any kind of payments made for services requested or rendered
 
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