Merged why the release of names associated with Epstein mean little to absolutely nothing.

theprestige said:
I recently read a novel, Everybody Knows, by Jordan Harper. He's a Hollywood TV writer and producer when he's not writing modern noir stories. The thesis of this novel, expressed in the title, is that everyone knows that the people in power in Hollywood are perpetrating heinous abuses on the people not in power (including, centrally in this novel, the recruiting, grooming, and brokering of young girls for sex). Everybody in the industry knows it's happening, even the ones who aren't involved or implicated. Everybody knows, nobody talks.

But it's fiction, so no matter how true it rings, we probably shouldn't suspect anything similar of the rich and powerful cabals that govern our world - even though many of them not only knew but were themselves involved. Right? Right? /s
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None of us really knows what the people around us do outside of our presence.



theprestige said:
ETA: I don't suspect Trump, for the simple reason that if Trump knew he would have blabbed in a White House press conference. Also, prior to his 2016 win, he probably didn't rate as eligible for Epstein's circle, and after the election was too much of a buffoon to be invited to join.
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I disagree about Trump. This guy use to walk into underage beauty pageants dressing rooms while the girls were dressing. This guy was a regular at Studio 54. He has been accused of sexual assault by two dozen women. But none of that tells us he necessarily was involved in Epstein's escapades.

We just don't know.
 
acbytesla said:
But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.
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Well the Dershowitz allegations are far more serious than that. But yeah, the "evidence" against Clinton is someone saying Epstein told them (about Clinton) "he likes them young" and the fact Clinton used the plane for humanitarian work in Africa. Entirely apart from the hearsay nature of the alleged statement- from a known liar and namedropper - yes, we know, Lewinsky was 22, nearly 30 years younger then him.

Trump so far seems clean, at least with regard to Epstein.
 
Orphia Nay said:
you think it's possible ALL politicians except Trump are pedophiles? That's crazy talk.
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Thank god that's not what I said.

What I said was this, now in plain language since you're prone to misunderstanding allusion and implication: It's plausible that even if Bill Clinton were not involved in Epstein's shenanigans, he knew that such shenanigans were going on.

You really think that serial adulterer and garden-variety corrupt politician Bill Clinton never got an invite, and never heard anything from or about anyone who did? Never got offered any kind of quid pro quo at all, from Epstein or his associates?
 
Donny knew, and wanted in. There is video of him "window shopping" with Epstein and a bunch of young ladies. Don't tell me serial adulterer and sex pest Trump did not partake at least once. Knowing what a mother funking sleaze Epstein was, there will be photos too...
 
theprestige said:
ETA: I don't suspect Trump, for the simple reason that if Trump knew he would have blabbed in a White House press conference. Also, prior to his 2016 win, he probably didn't rate as eligible for Epstein's circle, and after the election was too much of a buffoon to be invited to join.
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Let me get this straight: You think Trump, who was on the Forbes Richest Billionaires List and whom the world believed was an extremely successful billionaire, a man whose sexual exploits and adultery were tabloid fodder didn't "rate" an invite from Epstein??

theprestige said:
Thank god that's not what I said.

What I said was this, now in plain language since you're prone to misunderstanding allusion and implication: It's plausible that even if Bill Clinton were not involved in Epstein's shenanigans, he knew that such shenanigans were going on.
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It's plausible. It's also equally plausible he didn't.

theprestige said:
You really think that serial adulterer and garden-variety corrupt politician Bill Clinton Donald Trump never got an invite, and never heard anything from or about anyone who did? Never got offered any kind of quid pro quo at all, from Epstein or his associates?
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I fixed that so you could see how that works.
 
Stacyhs said:
Let me get this straight: You think Trump, who was on the Forbes Richest Billionaires List and whom the world believed was an extremely successful billionaire, a man whose sexual exploits and adultery were tabloid fodder didn't "rate" an invite from Epstein??
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I assume that someone clever enough to keep their operation secret for so many years was probably clever enough to know the Forbes rating and other laurels laid on Trump's head were nonsense.

Epstein was a power broker. You think he needed to read Forbes, to find out who wielded real power? He could just ask his clients.
 
theprestige said:
I assume that someone clever enough to keep their operation secret for so many years was probably clever enough to know the Forbes rating and other laurels laid on Trump's head were nonsense.

Epstein was a power broker. You think he needed to read Forbes, to find out who wielded real power? He could just ask his clients.
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I'm seeing several "I assume"/assumptions/"probably" and "it's plausible" in your posts. We don't know who knew what or when from this release. Speculations built on assumptions and 'possibles' are a waste of time and energy from both sides.

"It's plausible that even if Bill Clinton were not involved in Epstein's shenanigans, he knew that such shenanigans were going on," because Epstein was "clever enough to keep their operation secret for so many years,"?
 
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
 
Norman Alexander said:
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
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We don't know who in this released list engaged in these activities or even knew about them. Let's not jump to assumptions based on our own biases.
 
theprestige said:
Good point, and it raises a question: Who is more likely to have known what Epstein was doing with young girls?
-Juan and Maria Alessi, husband and wife working at Epstain’s home in Florida​
or
-Bill Clinton​
?
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or

- Stephen Hawking

or

-Bruce Willis

or

-Cate Blanchett

or

-Alfredo Rodriquez (his butler at Epstein’s Florida home)

For mine, I would be shocked if his butler didn't know what was going on.
 
acbytesla said:
No doubt Jeffrey Epstein was a sleazebag of major proportions. And so were some of his associates. But just because some powerful people were his associates does not mean they took advantage of young women/girls. It doesn't mean they didn't either.

But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.

This is the political equivalent of a Rorschach test. People will see what they want to see.
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Depends a bit on the timing; anybody hanging out with him after the 2008 conviction has some 'splaining to do.
 
Norman Alexander said:
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
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Ever hear of Chappaquiddick? Ted Kennedy and five other married men held a party for six young single women who had worked on his brother's (RFK) campaign, as sort of a reward for that service.
 
I think it tells you a lot when people who have denied ever flying with Epstein are found on the list.
 
acbytesla said:
But there is something terribly wrong with assuming the worst of Trump, Clinton, Giuliani or Dershowitz because they may have flown on his plane or did business with Epstein.
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Dershowitz was not mentioned as someone just flying with Epstein. He was named as someone involved with the underage victims.

One even mentions his name on air during Filthy Rich that she had sex with him.








Also from the international aspect -

Our version of MAGA are having a field day after seeing Ehud Barak (Israel's prime minister in 1999) on the list - even though his mentioning in the list is part of an interrogation where the victim says she did not have sex with him.

They are already running it on full blow craziness as some form of attacking the opposition - even though it's 100% false and the man wasn't in any relevant government position since 2012.
 
Norman Alexander said:
It appears that if the "elites" were partying using young girls, as they have been constantly accused of, Trump as the poster-child and lauded icon of the anti-elites was right in there amongst them lapping up the debauchery. Pathetic excuses will follow, of course.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Trump or his sycophants.

However, when people talk about Trump being the "anti-elite" it is not because they think he is not rich or doesn't indulge himself. People know he brags about his lifestyle and he constantly talks about his "connections".

The "anti-elite" thing is the fact that he is - as they call it - in your face, tell it like it is, play by his own game, be anti establishment or someone who actually cares about what's real like how he enjoys a meal rather than be worried about stupid customs like which fork to use.

Or as I would put it - being a lying obnoxious narcist with the temper tantrum of a 6 year old. That is his appeal to them.



So yeah, I don't see a contradiction here at all from their perspective and no excuses needed.

I also tend to agree with the above, I don't think Trump is above being involved with Epstein's human trafficking - but I don't see it likely that we haven't heard it from his mouth yet.

The man has spilled so much stuff on tape - most of it intentional by himself - that I find it slightly hard to believe he would actually keep it a secret for so long. Just look at his current legal troubles.

Also agree that Trump at the time was mostly considered a tv personality at best and not even a powerful one.

In other words, yes he would partake in it, yes he probably wanted to be part of it but doubt he was "cool enough" to be invited.
 
Andy_Ross said:
It's just a list of people Epstein knew.
He was an influential millionaire who knew a lot of influential people.
Because someone knew him doesn't mean anything.
Lots of jumping to conclusions.
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To be more specific - The list is people whose name was mentioned during interrogations. But of course people jump to stupid conclusion without even seeing why they were mentioned in the first place.

I mentioned this in the other thread, Barak was mentioned there and people are having a field day with it - but when you look at the actual document the question is "did you have sex with him? answer: no"

But it doesn't matter at all, because people won't actually bother reading or care what the real facts are.

People don't want to learn facts, they just want to strengthen their own personal bias.
 
smartcooky said:
or
- Stephen Hawking
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Another great example. From all I can see, the only reason Hawking is even on the list is because of this mention in an Email by Epstein

"You can issue a reward to any of Virginia's friends acquaints family that come forward and help prove her allegations are false. The strongest is the Clinton dinner, and the new version in the Virgin Islands that Steven Hawking participated in an underage orgy," Epstein wrote in the email.
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In other words, Epstein basically says that they can say she is lying because she is accusing Hawking.

It's not the first time they basically throw another name into the mix to claim that is what the victim claim to have something easily to discredit - even though the victim never said it in the first place.
 
Brainster said:
Ever hear of Chappaquiddick? Ted Kennedy and five other married men held a party for six young single women who had worked on his brother's (RFK) campaign, as sort of a reward for that service.
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Yes, and so what? Eleanor Rooseveldt was supposed to be insatiable. Ben Franklin had it off with his black slaves, so the rumour goes. We are discussing Epstein and his flight logs. Was RFK on the list?
 
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