Guiliani Suspended from Practicing Law

[acbytesla]

Joy in the deserved suffering of others is a critical ingredient of our social glue. Same as outrage at the undeserved suffering of others.

Do you really believe that?

For me, I find joy in the suffering of others regardless of their offenses a human weakness. I don't believe in a God of any kind. But I do hold on to some of my mother's Christian teaching. Empathy, forgiveness and grace. Love thy neighbor and thine enemy.

I know it's tough some times to forgive. But IMV, that is when we need to the most.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Do you really believe that?

For me, I find joy in the suffering of others regardless of their offenses a human weakness. I don't believe in a God of any kind. But I do hold on to some of my mother's Christian teaching. Empathy, forgiveness and grace. Love thy neighbor and thine enemy.

But what I suggested was that Giuliani experience full cognizance of his own sin. Without knowing his sin he cannot become pentinent of that sin, and is thus damned to the Christian hell. It is theologically infinitely better to be miserable knowing one's own crapulence than live in blissful ignorance of how awful one is: the latter just means hell will come as a complete surprise. Forgiveness and grace comes from God to humans, not from humans to each other, and certainly not from an individual human to himself. I fear what you have retained of your mother's Christianity is the shadow and not the substance.

 

[acbytesla]

But what I suggested was that Giuliani experience full cognizance of his own sin. Without knowing his sin he cannot become pentinent of that sin, and is thus damned to the Christian hell. It is theologically infinitely better to be miserable knowing one's own crapulence than live in blissful ignorance of how awful one is: the latter just means hell will come as a complete surprise. Forgiveness and grace comes from God to humans, not from humans to each other, and certainly not from an individual human to himself. I fear what you have retained of your mother's Christianity is the shadow and not the substance.

I understand. But that isn't what I was taught. I was taught that we should love our neighbors and our enemies. To err is human, to forgive divine. That we should emulate Jesus as much as possible.

Rudy G deserves prison, not because he offended God. That is what sin is, an offense against God. Like homosexualiy and taking the Lord's name in vain. Basically crap.

No he deserves prison because he attacked our democracy. But I don't think we punish him for him to experience cognizance of his crimes. He's too old for that. No, I want him to die in prison as an example for others who might do the same thing. But his punishment is not about my pleasure.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

It's not The Rule of Law when blatant violations go unpunished.

 

[acbytesla]

It's not The Rule of Law when blatant violations go unpunished m

Exactly!

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Well, I'm deeply concerned about Giuliani! I'm worried that his senility might spare him from grasping the full extent of how far he's fallen. I want his brain to be in tip-top sparkling order so he can really, truly understand his situation, and comprehend just how much utter contempt people feel for him. I wish for godlike enlightenment to permeate every corner of his decaying brain so he can truly and absolutely know with Platonic Ideal perfect knowledge just what a little **** he is.
.

Instead of "To the Pain", for Giuliani it's "To the Brain"

"Wrong!" Tragic Monkey’s post rang across the forum. "Your brain you keep, and I'll tell you why! So that every shriek of mocking laughter shall be yours to cherish—every lib that snorts in contempt at your approach, every woman that cries 'Dear God, who is that incontinent, dye-leaking weirdo?' will reverberate forever within your perfect brain.”

 

[Ian Osborne]

It's not The Rule of Law when blatant violations go unpunished.

And it's certainly not 'zero tolerance'.

 

[newyorkguy]

These guys just won't stop lying. Yesterday after the first day of trial. Rudy G said in front of cameras again that the two election workers were engaged in vote switching.

“Everything I said about them is true,” Giuliani told reporters. “Of course I don’t regret it,” Giuliani then said when asked if he regretted his actions. “I told the truth. They were engaged in changing votes.”

Back in July, when Giuliani was in a court of law, he admitted to making false statements about the two Atlanta election workers. In an interview outside court, Giuliani can tell a news reporter he has evidence. In court he can't say that without being required to produce it. He can't tell the judge -- wink-wink -- "Stay tuned!"

Here's what Giuliani said in court in July:

Rudolph W. Giuliani has conceded that while acting as a lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump, he made false statements by asserting that two Georgia election workers had mishandled ballots while counting votes in Atlanta during the 2020 election.

In a two-page declaration, Mr. Giuliani acknowledged that he had in fact made the statements about Ms. Freeman and Ms. Moss that led to the filing of the suit and that the remarks “carry meaning that is defamatory per se.” He also admitted that his statements were “actionable” and “false” and that he no longer disputed the “factual elements of liability” the election workers had raised in their suit. New York Times report, July 23, 2023

Giuliani's defense in court was his statements may have been false but they were nonetheless “constitutionally protected” under the First Amendment.

Outside court, Giuliani continues to lie. But in his world that's okay. Giuliani belongs to a faction -- or cult if you prefer -- that accepts lying. One of the group tells an obvious lie and the rest of the group all swear they believe it.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's not The Rule of Law when blatant violations go unpunished.

Sadly Republicans and their army of trolls have largely succeeded in pushing the idea that is not the case.

They really have gotten an entire demographic of evil idiots onboard with the idea that everything is political bias. If Republicans break the law and you them punished it cannot, simply cannot be, just because you want law breaking punished. It can only be because you hate Republicans in some sort biased, unreasonable way.

Again this is a party who's literal election position is "We fully admit we can't win in open and fair elections, so if you want open and fair elections you just have an evil anti-Republican bias."

Everything they do is some version of "The Paradox of Tolerance."

 

[shemp]

Back in July, when Giuliani was in a court of law, he admitted to making false statements about the two Atlanta election workers. In an interview outside court, Giuliani can tell a news reporter he has evidence. In court he can't say that without being required to produce it. He can't tell the judge -- wink-wink -- "Stay tuned!"

Here's what Giuliani said in court in July:


Giuliani's defense in court was his statements may have been false but they were nonetheless “constitutionally protected” under the First Amendment.

Outside court, Giuliani continues to lie. But in his world that's okay. Giuliani belongs to a faction -- or cult if you prefer -- that accepts lying. One of the group tells an obvious lie and the rest of the group all swear they believe it.

But don't you see? He was lying in court when he said he admitted to making false statements! He said that because the FBI and DOJ had drugged him! He's telling the truth outside the court! And as soon as Trump is President again and he opens the secret FBI and DOJ archives, everyone will know the truth!

 

[JayUtah]

Giuliani's defense in court was his statements may have been false but they were nonetheless “constitutionally protected” under the First Amendment.

Haha, no. Accusing someone falsely of a crime is defamation per se. So Rudi fails tort law. And the First Amendment never shields against civil liability for the effect of speech. So he fails Con Law too. Sounds like he got his law degree from NYU Total Landscaping.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Then the Judge should just go "You're guilty, life sentence" and when Guiliani protests that the Judge can't do that the Judge can just go "But I'm not sentencing you, I'm just using my Constitutionally Protected Free Speech."

 

[acbytesla]

Haha, no. Accusing someone falsely of a crime is defamation per se. So Rudi fails tort law. And the First Amendment never shields against civil liability for the effect of speech. So he fails Con Law too. Sounds like he got his law degree from NYU Total Landscaping.

Rudy is trying to wreck it. Cause a mistrial somehow. He's in a bad way in this trial. He can't win. So instead, he calculates why not try and delay having to pay up until he's in the ground.

 

[Paul2]

Instead of "To the Pain", for Giuliani it's "To the Brain"

"Wrong!" Tragic Monkey’s post rang across the forum. "Your brain you keep, and I'll tell you why! So that every shriek of mocking laughter shall be yours to cherish—every lib that snorts in contempt at your approach, every woman that cries 'Dear God, who is that incontinent, dye-leaking weirdo?' will reverberate forever within your perfect brain.”

 

[SpitfireIX]

Haha, no. Accusing someone falsely of a crime is defamation per se. So Rudi fails tort law. And the First Amendment never shields against civil liability for the effect of speech. So he fails Con Law too. Sounds like he got his law degree from NYU Total Landscaping.

I still think he's suffering from some form of dementia. No one can be this stupid.

 

[acbytesla]

I still think he's suffering from some form of dementia. No one can be this stupid.

Oh yes they can. I see people more stupid than this every day.

 

[SpitfireIX]

The judge had a great line yesterday. From New York magazine:

(No link is provided because the autocensor thinks the URL has a prohibited word in it; Google the title if you want to read the whole thing.)

Rudy Giuliani Can’t Resist Digging Himself a Hole at His Defamation Trial

Giuliani has continued to claim the election in Georgia was stolen, and to a lesser extent to malign Freeman and Moss, right through the trial, creating a sort of defamation feedback loop. After Sibley tried to strike a note of contrition before the jury in his opening statement, saying that Freeman and Moss were good, hardworking people and admitting there was “no question they were harmed,” Giuliani went outside and told the news cameras he had no regrets about what he had said, saying he planned to testify that he “told the truth.” Within hours, the plaintiffs had filed a motion with the judge seeking to limit Giuliani’s ability to repeat his defamation on the stand. In the arguments over the motion, Howell expressed some incredulity to Gottlieb, asking why he wanted to confiscate Giuliani’s shovel when he was so clearly intent on digging, making more statements that “can be brought in to help bolster additional punitive damages.” ​

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

The judge had a great line yesterday. From New York magazine:

(No link is provided because the autocensor thinks the URL has a prohibited word in it; Google the title if you want to read the whole thing.)

Rudy Giuliani Can’t Resist Digging Himself a Hole at His Defamation Trial

Giuliani has continued to claim the election in Georgia was stolen, and to a lesser extent to malign Freeman and Moss, right through the trial, creating a sort of defamation feedback loop. After Sibley tried to strike a note of contrition before the jury in his opening statement, saying that Freeman and Moss were good, hardworking people and admitting there was “no question they were harmed,” Giuliani went outside and told the news cameras he had no regrets about what he had said, saying he planned to testify that he “told the truth.” Within hours, the plaintiffs had filed a motion with the judge seeking to limit Giuliani’s ability to repeat his defamation on the stand. In the arguments over the motion, Howell expressed some incredulity to Gottlieb, asking why he wanted to confiscate Giuliani’s shovel when he was so clearly intent on digging, making more statements that “can be brought in to help bolster additional punitive damages.” ​

I'll let the Forum Auto-censer deal with this but, Jesus ****, is not Giuliani certifiably insane?

My fear at this point is that, no matter the size of the damages, Giuliani won't have a penny to pay any penalty.

 

[Stacyhs]

I still think he's suffering from some form of dementia. No one can be this stupid.

No? Might I direct you to Jordan Klepper's several interviews with Trump rally supporters?

 

[acbytesla]

I'll let the Forum Auto-censer deal with this but, Jesus ****, is not Giuliani certifiably insane?

My fear at this point is that, no matter the size of the damages, Giuliani won't have a penny to pay any penalty.

He's got money. He's playing a game that he doesn't. Owns multimillion dollar condo in New York and another multimillion dollar house in Florida. Does he have 45 million? Maybe not.