How is Israel Going to Retaliate Against Hamas?

[Nessie]

Israel removed its settlers from Gaza when it pulled out of that area. What makes you think they will reoccupy once this bout of fighting is over? Bear in mind that Netanyahu has explicitly said that Israel will not reoccupy Gaza.

I think it might be useful for you to consider how Israelis feel about their future too. They withdrew from Gaza, and watched as Hamas ousted Fatah, seized control, and used Gaza as a launching pad for thousands upon thousands of rockets, fired indiscriminately at civilian areas in Israel, as well as attacking Egypt. From an Israeli perspective, a Palestinian area left to govern itself is a clear and present danger to Israel and Israelis. That they have said they will not reoccupy is a testament to their willingness to give the Palestinians a chance to sort their **** out, and form a government that isn't composed of fanatical terrorists.

Israelis are right to feel anger at the disgusting terrorist organisation that is Hamas. Israeli government vengeance has been so brutal, that it is hard to feel much more sympathy than that.

My position is that both sides are tragically lead by disgusting men of violence, who moronically think more violence is the way. There are lost of morons here that support the violence.

My sympathise lie with normal, decent people, who just want to get on with life without men of violence fighting around them.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Regarding the Al-Shifa hospital revelations --

I looked at the videos being released by the media (they were given a tour of the facility).
One thing really struck me about the light weaponry that was shown.
The amount (not much) and the condition (dirty) and the ordnance all appear to be the types of things which would be part of the fighters' personal combat gear carried into battle. Vests, extra magazines, hand grenades, radios, binoculars, etc.
The hospital was involved with treating armed Hamas injured. My spidey-tingly senses tell me that those weapons were brought into the hospital by these men, and they died while there, so the hospital staff just stored them away in some locked storage rooms.
I would bet the hospital just took them off the incoming dead guys, and that's what we are seeing.

Ohhhh no. **** no. You don't get to yadda yadda this.

Al-Shifa hospital was Hamas headquarters. Remember?

The aid convoy had to turn around and went instead to al-Shifa hospital, where HAMAS is maintaining their H-Q.

It's why Israel was starving it for fuel and supplies. Remember? People were dying, but you were confident it was Hamas's fault because they had crazy supplies stockpiled underneath.

I can't recall where I read it, by apparently there are hundreds of thousands of liters of fuel in HAMAS tank farms, which in turn, are under al-Shifa hospital. All roads lead to to that alShifa compound, and if the Israelis get lucky, they'll locate Sinwar hiding there.

Where is the fuel? Where are the roads? Where are the tunnels, the bunkers, the rocket installations that we've been repeatedly told are there... somewhere? Is Hamas such military geniuses that overnight they managed to turn a whole headquarters and hundred of thousands of liters of fuel into a dirty collection of handheld weaponry smaller than that of the average American household? Or was the vaunted Israeli intelligence just ******* wrong and they've been terrorizing a civilian hospital for no good damned reason?

Ya think there's a chance they might also be equally ******* wrong when they've pointed to all those thousands of Palestinians the IDF has killed and said there's probably a Hamas somewhere there too? That they might just be smashing anything they can reach while yelling about finding a stranger in the alps?

(reference for people who don't get that)

 

[webfusion]

Ohhhh no. **** no. You don't get to yadda yadda this.

Al-Shifa hospital was Hamas headquarters. Remember?

Tunnels were discovered within the grounds (the entire hospital complex is rather large).
Rocket installations are being discovered all over Gaza as we speak. Quite massive ones, too.
And from where (and HOW?) did they obtain an MLRS M270 launcher?

]It's why Israel was starving it for fuel and supplies. Remember? People were dying, but you were confident it was Hamas's fault because they had crazy supplies stockpiled underneath. Where is the fuel? Where are the roads? Where are the tunnels, the bunkers, the rocket installations that we've been repeatedly told are there... somewhere? Is Hamas such military geniuses that overnight they managed to turn a whole headquarters and hundred of thousands of liters of fuel into a dirty collection of handheld weaponry smaller than that of the average American household? Or was the vaunted Israeli intelligence just ******* wrong and they've been terrorizing a civilian hospital for no good damned reason?

I was confident that Gazans are understandably upset that Hamas embarked them onto this path of further despair than usual for them. The point was never the fuel, or the water, or the electricity, or the aid. The main thrust of Israel's demands has been singular and consistent throughout. Return the cadavers of Oren Shaul and Hadar Goldin, along with any other KIA IDF personnel and civilians they've been holding since 10-7. Do it now. It's outrageous this is even a point of contention here on these forums!
Israel will respond accordingly with releasing Hamas bodies that're lying in morgues, as well as the minors and female prisoners, but none of that is contingent on a pause first (lull -- Tadiyeh).
No ceasefire until the above happens.

Ya think there's a chance they might also be equally ******* wrong when they've pointed to all those thousands of Palestinians the IDF has killed and said there's probably a Hamas somewhere there too? That they might just be smashing anything they can reach while yelling about finding a stranger in the alps?

Great video clip, apropos.

I am pretty sure there are lots of Hamas's in the rubble there, not really concerned about it.
More to come, I would venture to predict.

Moving into the South, now, probably to claim the Philadelphi Road. Watch out, as this turns into a total breach of Egypt's flimsy demarcation lines (1982) with millions of Gazans headed over to Al Arish, to buy ice-cold Cokes.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

Moving into the South, now, probably to claim the Philadelphi Road. Watch out, as this turns into a total breach of Egypt's flimsy demarcation lines (1982) with millions of Gazans headed over to Al Arish, to buy ice-cold Cokes.

Whaaaat?! You mean the plan isn't to root Hamas out of the north end of Gaza and then allow the evacuees to return, maybe leave them a gift basket and a note of apology for the inconvenience? I am shocked, sir, shocked!

If we're laying predictions, I don't think they're going to push the Palestinians all the way into Egypt, much as they might like to. Israel's already pissed through all the goodwill the Hamas attack gave it and they're starting to get crap from their allies cough Biden, they're going to cut their plans and halt the advance about where it is. A new wall will be erected, South Gaza will become the new Gaza, and they'll wait for another good attack to keep going. They've murdered a few thousand people, displaced over a million, leveled entire neighborhoods, made a lotta pissed-off orphans. Hamas will be swimming in volunteers for a couple of years. An excuse will come.

 

[webfusion]

People have very short memories.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...non-camp/7f27b1be-a436-449a-8ca5-1e86f4a3f211

(1996) Reading this story, there's a sense of deja-Vu.

"We don't want to see any woman, or child or Lebanese civilian killed, but they are the victims of Hezbollah," Shimon Peres told reporters.

 

[PitPat]

Whaaaat?! You mean the plan isn't to root Hamas out of the north end of Gaza and then allow the evacuees to return, maybe leave them a gift basket and a note of apology for the inconvenience? I am shocked, sir, shocked!

If we're laying predictions, I don't think they're going to push the Palestinians all the way into Egypt, much as they might like to. Israel's already pissed through all the goodwill the Hamas attack gave it and they're starting to get crap from their allies cough Biden, they're going to cut their plans and halt the advance about where it is. A new wall will be erected, South Gaza will become the new Gaza, and they'll wait for another good attack to keep going. They've murdered a few thousand people, displaced over a million, leveled entire neighborhoods, made a lotta pissed-off orphans. Hamas will be swimming in volunteers for a couple of years. An excuse will come.

Well to the OP, I think we're kind of seeing that, and as to be expected. There are two goals (1) Eradicate Hamas in its entirety; and (2) maybe get as many hostages back as you can, alive.

(1) Could happen and there's no possible way that another group will still eventually replace it.

(2) Possible but with backdoor diplomacy, at least some. It's not like Hamas or other proxies didn't think of these outcomes beforehand.

And a third, how the hell did nobody see 10/7 coming? Mossad or other intelligence agencies? Doesn't matter right now, because we have to remove an enemy that will be replaced, hopefully get some hostages back alive, and then we'll skirt around the issue about who was involved in this epic failure with investigations and a lengthy report in about four years after it's over. Not a time to be asking questions. You're either with us or against us.

Oh, and this will never be over.

 

[Steve]

Well to the OP, I think we're kind of seeing that, and as to be expected. There are two goals (1) Eradicate Hamas in its entirety; and (2) maybe get as many hostages back as you can, alive.

(1) Could happen and there's no possible way that another group will still eventually replace it.

(2) Possible but with backdoor diplomacy, at least some. It's not like Hamas or other proxies didn't think of these outcomes beforehand.

And a third, how the hell did nobody see 10/7 coming? Mossad or other intelligence agencies? Doesn't matter right now, because we have to remove an enemy that will be replaced, hopefully get some hostages back alive, and then we'll skirt around the issue about who was involved in this epic failure with investigations and a lengthy report in about four years after it's over. Not a time to be asking questions. You're either with us or against us.

Oh, and this will never be over.

Naming names for this type of issue is never productive, except for possible public appeasement.. It was a system failure that cannot be blamed on a few named people. And if names do come out they will be scapegoats. I doubt that Mossad would be willing to expose and lose generally competent personnel based on one system failure.

 

[PitPat]

Naming names for this type of issue is never productive, except for possible public appeasement.. It was a system failure that cannot be blamed on a few named people. And if names do come out they will be scapegoats. I doubt that Mossad would be willing to expose and lose generally competent personnel based on one system failure.

Not saying anything about losing competent personnel, but that's kind of more than one system failure, IMO. Like 9/11 wasn't just one system failure. More of a leadership thing while being complacent and how to allocate those competent personnel.

And yes, naming names can be productive if shown to be incompetent, or preoccupied. This kind of sounds like "Hey man, just doing what I'm told. Can't blame me. I made some noise but still want to keep my job so didn't push it that much." Effect: Maybe some of them won't be re-elected if they hold electable positions.

Call it oversimplification but I don't think it's too far off.

 

[Planigale]

Tunnels were discovered within the grounds (the entire hospital complex is rather large).
Rocket installations are being discovered all over Gaza as we speak. Quite massive ones, too.
And from where (and HOW?) did they obtain an MLRS M270 launcher?



I was confident that Gazans are understandably upset that Hamas embarked them onto this path of further despair than usual for them. The point was never the fuel, or the water, or the electricity, or the aid. The main thrust of Israel's demands has been singular and consistent throughout. Return the cadavers of Oren Shaul and Hadar Goldin, along with any other KIA IDF personnel and civilians they've been holding since 10-7. Do it now. It's outrageous this is even a point of contention here on these forums!
Israel will respond accordingly with releasing Hamas bodies that're lying in morgues, as well as the minors and female prisoners, but none of that is contingent on a pause first (lull -- Tadiyeh).
No ceasefire until the above happens.



Great video clip, apropos.

I am pretty sure there are lots of Hamas's in the rubble there, not really concerned about it.
More to come, I would venture to predict.

Moving into the South, now, probably to claim the Philadelphi Road. Watch out, as this turns into a total breach of Egypt's flimsy demarcation lines (1982) with millions of Gazans headed over to Al Arish, to buy ice-cold Cokes.

I thought you were opposed to the enforced ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza and they should only move into a fully funded 'New Gaza' voluntarily?

Also seems like there will be lots of hostages and PoWs in the rubble. Not all the hostages are held by Hamas, so co-ordinating the return may not be easy. Hamas may not know exactly how many are still alive, and if dead exactly which pile of rubble they are under. My guess is Hamas is operating a cell structure with little command and control (for obvious reasons - communicatiions have been disrupted). liasion with other groups may be more difficult.

 

[webfusion]

planigale, if they have logistical problems with releasing (and/or accounting for ) the entire hostage/KIA group, then why are they saying they'll release them in exchange for ... (insert latest demand here).

Israel is clearing out the riff-raff. Khan Younis is next.
Do you not recall what happened in 2008? Hamas broke through the border barrier with Egypt into n.Sinai, and half the (then-1.5 million) population of the Gaza Strip crossed that opening in the border into Egypt seeking food and supplies.
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered his troops to allow crossings to alleviate the humanitarian crisis (while verifying that the Gazans did not attempt to bring weapons back into Gaza). In five days, Gazans spent some US$250 million in the North Sinai Governorate's capital of elArish alone.

 

[webfusion]

BREAKING NEWS:
Hostages taken in RedSea by Gaza-supporting African terrorists.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/israel-says-yemens-houthi-rebels-154937570.html

25 people are on board "Galaxy Leader", and they're now being declared as hostages.

 

[steenkh]

BREAKING NEWS:
Hostages taken in RedSea by Gaza-supporting African terrorists.

It is news to me that the Houthis are “African”. I thought they were Iranian-backed Yemenis. But then, lots of Arabs are Africans, and I can’t tell the difference.

 

[Nessie]

https://twitter.com/iyad_elbaghdadi/status/1726174943501762972

"Something scary happens when people no longer feel they can convince or engage the other side; when they feel the other side is a moral lost cause and there isn't any space of possible agreement between your minimum position and their maximum, or your maximum and their minimum"

That's when the fighting breaks out, revenge, retribution, dehumanisation. Those who think there can be a solution from the violence, need to understand that there will still need to be compromise and negotiation for both sides to move on, once the fighting stops.

 

[webfusion]

It is news to me that the Houthis are “African”. I thought they were Iranian-backed Yemenis. But then, lots of Arabs are Africans, and I can’t tell the difference.

Yemen is within the Arabian peninsula. It's not connected to Africa. Africa is over thataway, across the Bab al-Mandab Strait. I misspoke, and thanks for pointing out my geographic error. (I got Yemen confused with Sudan). In this war, it helps to have a map right at hand, and a scorecard would help too.

* Iranian warning to Israel that it will soon face multiple 'fronts' and the USA should anticipate attacks, also.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bkkopldet

* Homeless puppy taken to safety by advancing troops in Gaza.
https://www.ynetnews.com/environment/article/rkdue5f4a

* Another IDF unit is in the news, as they encountered a lost cat & it was taken with them and is being rehabilitated (poor thing was a furry mess) and adopted.

* Not sure why, but the media is ignoring the animals of the Gaza Zoo.
Crocodiles, hyenas, foxes, deer and monkeys, as well as a lone ibex and a solitary wolf.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/short-animals-gaza-zoo-fights-survive-2023-06-06

* Snowfall on the Hermon mountain. Nobody is going up there to ski, unfortunately.
Rockets launched from Lebanon continue to fall in that zone, as well.

* It received scant attention, but the Palestinian Parliament (Hamas' political H-Q) was blown to smithereens after being overrun by IDF forces in Gaza City.
The Palestinians are gonna need a new government anyways, so no great loss.

* IDF takes care of stranded old woman in N.Gaza

 

[webfusion]

Here comes the rain. Yeccccchhhhh. Whatta mess that's gonna create in the muck and mud of Gaza.
Without electricity, the pumps and sewage handling facilities are inoperable.
Basically, Gaza will be inundated, literally with **** flowing everywhere.

(Yesterday's severe storm in Israel reached as far south as Ashdod, and spared the Gazans from the brunt)
https://www.jpost.com/environment-and-climate-change/article-774140

 

[Planigale]

Yemen is within the Arabian peninsula. It's not connected to Africa. Africa is over thataway, across the Bab al-Mandab Strait. I misspoke, and thanks for pointing out my geographic error. (I got Yemen confused with Sudan). In this war, it helps to have a map right at hand, and a scorecard would help too.

* Iranian warning to Israel that it will soon face multiple 'fronts' and the USA should anticipate attacks, also.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bkkopldet

* Homeless puppy taken to safety by advancing troops in Gaza.
https://www.ynetnews.com/environment/article/rkdue5f4a

* Another IDF unit is in the news, as they encountered a lost cat & it was taken with them and is being rehabilitated (poor thing was a furry mess) and adopted.

* Not sure why, but the media is ignoring the animals of the Gaza Zoo.
Crocodiles, hyenas, foxes, deer and monkeys, as well as a lone ibex and a solitary wolf.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/short-animals-gaza-zoo-fights-survive-2023-06-06

* Snowfall on the Hermon mountain. Nobody is going up there to ski, unfortunately.
Rockets launched from Lebanon continue to fall in that zone, as well.

* It received scant attention, but the Palestinian Parliament (Hamas' political H-Q) was blown to smithereens after being overrun by IDF forces in Gaza City.
The Palestinians are gonna need a new government anyways, so no great loss.

* IDF takes care of stranded old woman in N.Gaza

Shame the IDF didn't provide some clean water, electricity and food to the 39 premature babies that were there when IDF occupied the hospital; only 31 survived the IDF occupation to be evacuated. But they are nice to kittens.

 

[lionking]

Shame the IDF didn't provide some clean water, electricity and food to the 39 premature babies that were there when IDF occupied the hospital; only 31 survived the IDF occupation to be evacuated. But they are nice to kittens.

Hamas sowed the wind and reaped a whirlwind. What did they, or anyone with even a basic knowledge of middle eastern history, expect? This is all on Hamas.

 

[webfusion]

Shame the IDF didn't provide some clean water, electricity and food to the 39 premature babies that were there when IDF occupied the hospital; only 31 survived the IDF occupation to be evacuated. But they are nice to kittens.

You are upset that IDF arranged for evacuation of these infants?
Babies born at 25 weeks and less are at high risk of death, a long, tortuous journey through life, and disability. (we don't know the early status of those births, and what their chances of survival would have been anyway). A free supply of water, fuel, food, or power, especially in time of open warfare, is not logical.

However, Israel is trying to alleviate some of that, and has facilitated several international efforts in order to get aid (food and medical), as well as starting to deliver fuel, and water (for free). The electric company in Israel doesn't want to let Gaza have free power, and IEC is asking for payment. Whatta concept! They send a bill, it's ignored, and when they shut the circuit off, it's the electric company to blame?

You know what's really a shame? That Hamas chose to attack Israel resulting in the worst single-day death toll of Jews since the middle of the last century.
All the 12,000 + deaths in Gaza are the full responsibility of Hamas for pushing the envelope and seeing this whole thing explode in their faces.

And the hostage 'deal' that's being talked about? Probably a case of 'Too little, Too late' on the part of Hamas, and Israeli emergency war cabinet leaders are sitting there and saying to themselves, we'll just keep doing what we're doing and let the chips fall where they may.
If the Hamas will arrange a release of cadavers and as many hostages as they can account for, then Israel will react accordingly with a transfer of Palestinians we hold (dead and alive) back into Gaza. But there's not going to be a ceasefire.
On the contrary, IDF forces are gaining ground, eliminating top Hamas commanders daily, and capturing even more Hamas guys along the way. (as well as gathering up Hamas terrorists in raids across the westbank, by the hundreds).

 

[Nessie]

Hamas sowed the wind and reaped a whirlwind. What did they, or anyone with even a basic knowledge of middle eastern history, expect? This is all on Hamas.

True. You should add that Israel is also going to reap the whirlwind, as it loses a lot of international support over its behaviour.

 

[steenkh]

Yemen is within the Arabian peninsula. It's not connected to Africa. Africa is over thataway, across the Bab al-Mandab Strait. I misspoke, and thanks for pointing out my geographic error. (I got Yemen confused with Sudan). In this war, it helps to have a map right at hand, and a scorecard would help too.

I was honestly thinking that you might have information that the Houthis were employing mercenaries from the Somalian Al-Shabab, which would be unprecedented, because the Houthis are Shia, and Al-Shabab is Sunni.