General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[Planigale]

The BBC goes inside the Al-Shifa hospital, which the IDF have occupied and searched for 24 hours. No tunnels, instead;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67436154

"three small stashes of Kalashnikovs, ammunition and bullet-proof vests - he says they have found around 15 guns in all, along with some grenades."

They could have been left there by injured Hamas seeking treatment. So much for the hospital being used as a shield to mount attacks on Israel and to hide a Hamas control centre.

Also from BBC

It's still hard to know exactly what is going on inside Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City, but here's a look at the reported developments over the last few hours:

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) says its operation inside the hospital is continuing, with soldiers "proceeding one building at a time, searching each floor"
A journalist inside Al-Shifa earlier told the BBC that "soldiers are everywhere, shooting in all directions"
Before his phone line cut off, he also said armoured bulldozers had been brought in
The IDF first entered the hospital on Wednesday. Last night, it showed the BBC what it said were Hamas weapons and other assets found during the raid
This afternoon, the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza said Israeli forces had destroyed some departments at the hospital
The head of the facility said it had now run out of oxygen and patients were "screaming from thirst"
Israel has repeatedly accused Hamas of housing a major base underneath Al-Shifa hospital - a claim that Hamas denies
The BBC has not been able to independently verify today's developments. This all comes amid a major connectivity outage across the Gaza Strip, according to several communications companies in the Palestinian territory

 

[Planigale]

People have been saying Israel is committing genocide for a long time. Such a long time that a reasonable person would wonder why they haven't actually made any real progress yet.

It's been over ten years since that cartoon was done. By 2017, Gaza was still remarkably un-genocided. Does it really make sense to call it a genocide, when no actual genocide is being accomplished?

2% of the population of Gaza has beeen killed or injured in the last month.

Every genocide starts with a single death. Maybe the premature babies dying in the Israeli occupied hospital due to lack of heat and oxygen are the first? Since Israel has occupied the hospital they are responsible for the health and well being of the staff and patients.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/c...11f2c7713a9431859e1cbc93c66306fa4386.jpg.webp

 

[theprestige]

2% of the population of Gaza has beeen killed or injured in the last month.

Every genocide starts with a single death. Maybe the premature babies dying in the Israeli occupied hospital due to lack of heat and oxygen are the first? Since Israel has occupied the hospital they are responsible for the health and well being of the staff and patients.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/c...11f2c7713a9431859e1cbc93c66306fa4386.jpg.webp

Yes, yes. After decades of twiddling their thumbs trying to come up with some way to get this genocide going, the Israelis finally concluded that letting Hamas commit a horrific crime against humanity would give them the perfect excuse to ... occupy neonatal units in Gaza to... ensure that Palestinian preemies get suboptimal care.

This is what Hamas sympathizers actually believe a genocide looks like.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I mean that judging by reputation is a bad metric, and antisemitism is on the rise globally because that's what usually happens when things go badly and people need a scapegoat. And things are going badly globally.

Israel's priority is not to protect its reputation. Their priority is to protect their people. You aren't providing helpful guidance towards that end.

neither is the Israeli government.

 

[theprestige]

neither is the Israeli government.

That's their reputation, anyway, in some quarters.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

The terrorist attack by Hamas on 7/10 was described as genocidal.

Was it? By whom?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

The above statement is the very stark lie...

As irrefragably proven in this post.

No, you didn't prove anything in that post: you just asserted something that wasn't true.
Also, citing yourself as a source seems a touch egotistical.

To which I gave you many IRREFUTABLE proofs in this post.

No, in that post you lied. Repeatedly.

You're in out of your depth, Leumas. Stop frothing and foaming, and try to learn something about this subject- and about honesty.

 

[Leumas]

The terrorist attack by Hamas on 7/10 was described as genocidal.

Was it? By whom?

By the congenital pathological liar and psychopathic war criminal Netanyahu... right here...

@0:35 Hamas launched this war by perpetrating the worst savagery our people have seen since the Holocaust....

Repeated lies about facts and denial of reality does not change the fact that Israel has in the past and continues to be a genocidal war criminal state of apartheid and ethnic cleansing and racism and settler colonialism... right from the onset and even before its creation by Zionists.

 

[Leumas]

....lied. Repeatedly....frothing and foaming...

Is what Zionists do when confronted with their crimes and the facts about their repeated "mowing the lawn" GENOCIDE...

 

[bobdroege7]

And denying it is genocide when it is... does not make it NOT genocide...

It is genocide whether you like it or not because IT IS... according to REALITY and morality and humanity and decency and reason and rationality and... did I already mention morality and humanity and decency and rationality... and according to this too...




So please stop denying REALITY and facts and decency and humanity and morality and reason.





And you know full well why that is the case... for decades upon decades...

Now who took the hostages?

Israel is just trying to free its own citizens illegally taken from within its borders.

 

[lionking]

Now who took the hostages?

Israel is just trying to free its own citizens illegally taken from within its borders.

But, but genocide!!!

Seriously, if Tel Aviv were nuked, Israel’s response would be condemned by some in this very thread…

 

[Ziggurat]

Israel has in the past and continues to be a genocidal war criminal state of apartheid and ethnic cleansing and racism and settler colonialism

I've almost got my progressive screed Bingo card filled out. Can you try to squeeze in a "late stage capitalism" and a "heteronormative patriarchy"? K thx!

 

[Leumas]

Now who took the hostages?

Israel is just trying to free its own citizens illegally taken from within its borders.

People who do not know history are doomed to justify genocide and Sippenhaftung.

GENEVA, Oct 12 (Reuters) - A group of independent United Nations experts on Thursday condemned violence against civilians in Israel and deplored the "collective punishment" of reprisal strikes against Gaza.

While condemning the "horrific crimes committed by Hamas", the group said that Israel had resorted to "indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza".

"They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 75 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for," the group, which includes several U.N. special rapporteurs, said in a statement.

[imgw=300]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e3/Pappe_-_The_Ethnic_Cleancing_of_Palestine.jpg/220px-Pappe_-_The_Ethnic_Cleancing_of_Palestine.jpg[/imgw]​

 

[Leumas]

By the congenital pathological liar and psychopathic war criminal Netanyahu... right here...
Repeated lies about facts and denial of reality does not change the fact that Israel has in the past and continues to be a genocidal war criminal state of apartheid and ethnic cleansing and racism and settler colonialism... right from the onset and even before its creation by Zionists.

I've almost got my progressive screed Bingo card filled out. Can you try to squeeze in a "late stage capitalism" and a "heteronormative patriarchy"? K thx!

Israel was founded by Zionist SOCIALISTS and dreamt of creating a SOCILAIST Settler Colonialist colony of Kibbutzim .

And even outside the COMMUNIST Kibbutzim all over Israel... the state of Israel is more socialist than Sweden.

Some of the worst violence from this week's Hamas attacks in Israel took place in small Israeli communities near Gaza called kibbutzim.
....
The kibbutz is a uniquely Israeli phenomenon with a significant cultural legacy and an important role in the nation's history...

Kibbutzim are a communal living situation unique to Israel. There are about 270 kibbutzim dotted across Israel.
...
Central to the kibbutz are roots in socialist and Marxist ideas about collective living....

I've almost got my progressive screed Bingo card filled out. Can you try to squeeze in a "late stage capitalism" and a "heteronormative patriarchy"? K thx!

Hardly...

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights in Israel are considered the most developed in the Middle East. ...Israel became the first country in Asia to recognize unregistered cohabitation between same-sex couples, making it the first country in Asia to recognize same-sex unions in any capacity.

...
Tel Aviv was referred to by the Calgary Herald as one of the most gay-friendly cities in the world, famous for its annual Pride parade and gay beach, earning it the nickname "the gay capital of the Middle East" by Out magazine.

According to users of the website GayCities, it was ranked as the best gay city in 2011, despite reports of some anti-LGBT violence during the 2000s, which were criticized by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and President Shimon Peres. A monument dedicated to the gay victims of the Holocaust was erected in Tel Aviv in 2014

 

[lionking]

People who do not know history are doomed to justify genocide and Sippenhaftung.

[imgw=300]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e3/Pappe_-_The_Ethnic_Cleancing_of_Palestine.jpg/220px-Pappe_-_The_Ethnic_Cleancing_of_Palestine.jpg[/imgw]​

The UN has a history of condemning everything Israel does, while remaining silent about each and every outrageous offence against them. The whole organisation reeks of antisemitism and is safely ignored.

ETA, and John Pilger’s endorsement of the book you show? Oh please, keep the laughs coming….

 

[Leumas]

But, but genocide!!!

Seriously, if Tel Aviv were nuked, Israel’s response would be condemned by some in this very thread…

You denying it is genocide does not make it not genocide...

and using fallacies of slippery slope and false attributions and bulverism does not whitewash ... The ‘Sheer Evil’ of Israel’s War Crimes: Israeli General’s Son Speaks Out

@minute 8:53
....this country gives access of 4 billion dollars a year to a country where government ministers for decades have been saying the same things government ministers people in power have been saying this Israeli members of cabinet Israeli Prime Ministers Israeli generals this has been the rhetoric against Palestinians and particularly against Gaza uh people in Gaza uh you know going back decades I mean you and I have been hearing this for a very long time so these punks are standing there and they're repeating what they've heard and what they've seen they're repeating what their parents are probably saying and their friends are saying and you know Zionism is a racist genocidal ideology that's the source of this...

The movie about Golda Meir just came out hailing her as some kind of a great hero she was an ignorant racist war criminal and what do you think her ideology was if it wasn't the same as this and the one of the people before her and so on... this is fundamental to Zionism and to Zionist ideology otherwise how could you possibly have over two million people dying of thirst half an hour drive from Tel Aviv where people are you know on the beach and partying all day not to mention how holding holding music festivals just outside the fence you know what I mean you have to be brought up you have to believe firmly in this genocidal racist supremacist ideology to able to function and to maintain and to live in that kind of a state and that kind and be part of that kind of society otherwise you're an outcast and there...

 

[The Great Zaganza]

That's their reputation, anyway, in some quarters.

like the families of the hostages.

 

[Planigale]

Was it? By whom?

You clearly haven't been paying attention.

https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...ttack-in-gaza-this-isnt-war-this-is-genocide/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas...onstitute-genocide-international-law-experts/

 

[Planigale]

I've almost got my progressive screed Bingo card filled out. Can you try to squeeze in a "late stage capitalism" and a "heteronormative patriarchy"? K thx!

The continued militaristic approach to international relationships in the middle east is driven by the need for profits by the military-industrial complex.

That help?

 

[Planigale]

Now who took the hostages?

Israel.

Thousands of Palestinians are detained by Israel (illegally under international law) in secret prisons with access to lawyers and health care restricted, including children. Reports suggest women detainees are routinely sexually assaulted by Shin Bet as part of the interrogation process, some are raped. The assaults are videoed and the videos used to blackmail the detainees into co-operation with Shin Bet.

Israel is just trying to free its own citizens illegally taken from within its borders.

Strangely that is just what Hamas says.

To be clear this is not a justification of violence or terrorism; understanding the origins of violence is helpful in preventing future violence.