Cont: Luton Airport Car Park Fire part II

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Foster Zygote said:
You really should pay closer attention. I only stipulated that the two vehicles I showed, the BMW X5 and the Audi A5, were not available as a hybrid or EV for the generations shown. Both were available with either gasoline or diesel engines, but seeing as both were from the U.S., it's far more likely that both were gasoline burners, as diesel cars account for only about 3% of autos in this country.

And before you protest that the two car fire videos don't count if they aren't also diesels, please remember that they were both presented as examples of how violently an automobile can burn. Also keep in mind that diesel releases about 18% more energy when burned than gasoline. So everything you've been absorbing from "qualified experts", such as self-professed garage and dealership employees about how "a diesel shouldn't have burned like that" is flat out wrong. Once the fire gets started (and there's plenty of flammable material throughout the car to burn fiercely) a diesel is going to burn just as intensely as a gasoline car, if not more so. Furthermore, A Li-ion battery isn't going to cause a fire any more severe than a typical gasoline or diesel car, as per the 2017 NHTSA report (which you ignored):



I look forward to your attempt to link the NHTSA to the Illuminati, or the Morlock/Sleestak alliance, or whatever.
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I blame the Demoreans. Did anyone see an odd four-armed person behaving suspiciously?
 
Vixen said:
People have identified the vehicle varyingly as a Range Rover Evoque or even a Tesla. Why is it more important that it is a Range Rover Sport, 2014, when the Fire Brigade and police have not given you this information? Why the need to believe some random person on Twitter with 480 followers.

You can treat it as a conspiracy theory if you like, but I for one shall continue to treat it as current affairs. I do not accept your claim that the case is closed.
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Nobody has said the case is closed.

What has been said is that it started with a diesel car, this has been confirmed by the fire service.
 
Vixen said:
I refer you to Foster Zygote's numerous videos of burning diesel-only vehicles.
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But there is more burning than just diesel fuel.
The actual fuel load is a small part of the total mass of flammable material in a modern car.
This has been gone over in the thread already. You keep ignoring it for some reason.
 
Vixen said:
News update: LBC Radio have been chatting to members of the fire brigade union, who claim the building should have been able to withstand a fire for at least 15 minutes but despite their arriving within eight minutes, they could not contain it.
The Fire Brigades Union described Luton as an "accident waiting to happen", and slammed the government and developers for failing to learn lessons from the 2017 New Year's Eve blaze, after Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service (MFRS) said it could have been stopped if sprinklers had been fitted in the building. They said it would have given crews a "much better" chance of limiting the damage.

Concerns were also raised about the structure of Liverpool car park because it's design should have been able to withstand fire for 15 minutes. MFRS said despite crews attending within eight minutes of the alarm, the flames spread so quickly they were not able to control the blaze. Luton Airport's terminal two car park was the same type of exposed-steelwork design.
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https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/ministers-accused-failure-act-safety-luton-car-park-fire/
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Seems to me the problem is pretty clearly identified in the highlighted. The flames spread quickly. Since the concrete doesn't catch fire, the flames must have spread to other vehicles.

I reckon that most of the immediately neighboring vehicles had ICEs. For the fire to get really out of hand, the fire must have spread from immediately neighboring vehicles to those farther away from the Range Rover (or whatever started the blaze). Thus, we must accept that a burning ICE car can spread fire to neighboring vehicles.

Consequently, we must accept that the initial vehicle could have spread the fire to adjacent vehicles even if it was a standard diesel engine. There is, to be fair, one difference between the initial vehicle and its neighbors: the neighbors were in parking spaces and hence, for the most part, closer to other vehicles. But unless you have good evidence that a car fire can spread to another vehicle only if it's within, oh, say 6 feet, then this difference is inconsequential.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
For a car less than 20-ish years old, the keys have value because they can be sold as a set of keys, locks, immobiliser and engine management computer. The key has a transponder chip which identifies itself to the immobiliser which lets the ECU start the car. If any part fails, the cheapest repair can be to replace the whole lot.
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Also for example the throttle body from something like a modern Jaguar or Aston Martin is a sealed unit, if any of the sensors or pots go faulty the whole thing has to be changed, this can run in to a lot of money for a new dealer part.

For example Maserati introduced a 'fly by wire' throttle with no actual physical linkage between pedal and throttle apart from potentiometers and electrical cables. In the throttle body one of the position sensor potentiometers commonly developed a fault with the track wearing. A new sealed body unit was over £1k but a reconditioned one from a third party is only about £300.
 
JesseCuster said:
I just read this entire 40+ page thread and I wish I hadn't. I did learn the following however, apparently I'm dumb because I think that I'm melting steel when I do some welding at work.

You can melt steel within seconds with any cheap welding machine. If you're not melting steel with your "welding tool" then you're not welding steel.
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I welded the other day with 2 car Batteries and a Coat hanger, luck now I know it didn't work, only drove the machine 2 Miles to the shop where the shop welder was.
Driving the 2 miles without steering, I just used Magic.
 
Foster Zygote said:
I'd intended to comment on this, but forgot.



Vixen, could you please tell us how you think welding actually works?
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I must admit that I've seen a lot of jaw-droppingly stupid derp in this thread.

But that one...

It does have the benefit of demonstrating that the poster simply doesn't know anything about anything, but goes into full Dunning-Kruger in every post.
 
I actually did a bit of welding only last weekend (fixing up the sides of my trailer) and I managed to melt the metal (rusty steel in this case lol) quite well- a little too well in some cases as I literally melted holes in the new sheet steel several times (blow-through) while welding in the new side panels... as my ancient stick welder really isn't the tool for the job (but I am still waiting for another spool of wire for the mig to arrive and my rego was due on the trailer)

Add welding to the (many) things Vixen has no clue about but is 'the source of all knowledge' (in her mind)

Welding indeed melts metal (outside of a lab even lol)
 
Vixen said:
Haha. The only way the police or fire brigade can identify the vehicle for sure is via its VIN.
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And when the VIN is produced you will insist it needs to be accompanied by a letter certifying authenticity signed by the PM, his wife, bonnie King Chuck and cosigned by the FSM. This exercise of yours has nothing to do with establishing the truth of the matter.
 
Vixen, you really are coming across as ignorant and almost deranged in your persistence in ignoring reality, and the many corrections you have received but refused to accept.

I don't know if that is your intention, but that's how it looks.

It was a diesel car, as confirmed by the fire service.

I'm sorry to say your posts make you seem like a massive bellend.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Indeed they do. I have a little 30 year old sports car and the related owners forums have entire sections devoted to modifications to boost the original engine or to replace the original 4 cylinder with a 6 or 8 cylinder engine or a rotary engine or an EV drivetrain or in a few cases to fit a smaller and very frugal engine. And another entire section devoted to fitting this 1990s car's drivetrain into trackday kit cars or retro-cool older cars.

I also sometimes read build project threads about entirely unrelated models of car too, yet I have never ever seen anyone convert any model of car into a diesel hybrid.

The thing you discover is that, even if you do most of the work yourself, doing it right gets really expensive. So people do not buy a hobby car to modify it into another available model of the same car which they could just have bought ready-made anyway.

TL;DR The reason you can't find an example of anyone converting a diesel Range Rover into the diesel hybrid version is because nobody has done that because it's pointless.
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And then spend well over £100,000 to get a very exclusive 'MH' plate, to avoid £12 a day ULEZ. Not forgetting the owner is now very well known and can afford to 'gag' the press.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Maserati introduced a 'fly by wire' throttle with no actual physical linkage between pedal and throttle apart from potentiometers and electrical cables. In the throttle body one of the position sensor potentiometers commonly developed a fault with the track wearing. A new sealed body unit was over £1k but a reconditioned one from a third party is only about £300.
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And the pot itself costs £3, right?
 
Andy_Ross said:
Also for example the throttle body from something like a modern Jaguar or Aston Martin is a sealed unit, if any of the sensors or pots go faulty the whole thing has to be changed, this can run in to a lot of money for a new dealer part.

For example Maserati introduced a 'fly by wire' throttle with no actual physical linkage between pedal and throttle apart from potentiometers and electrical cables. In the throttle body one of the position sensor potentiometers commonly developed a fault with the track wearing. A new sealed body unit was over £1k but a reconditioned one from a third party is only about £300.
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A lot of Lambo parts are interchangeable with standard VW too, making a salvage even more attractive.
 
ferd burfle said:
And when the VIN is produced you will insist it needs to be accompanied by a letter certifying authenticity signed by the PM, his wife, bonnie King Chuck and cosigned by the FSM. This exercise of yours has nothing to do with establishing the truth of the matter.
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Well I haven't seen the car's birth certificate. Maybe it is from Kenya. People are saying.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
And the pot itself costs £3, right?
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Sort of, it's a carbon track that a spring tensioned 'claw' moves slong. Over time the section of track that corresponds to the most common throttle position wears away and the engine jumps suddenly in revs as you press the pedal. All the electronics are embedded in resin inside a metal case on the throttle body.
Wheeler Dealers had to get one replaced.
There's a bloke that specialises in them. He replaces it with a contactless sensor. It's done on an exchange basis, your body for a refurbished one.

 
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