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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Hercules56 said:
The USA is forcing Israel to cease-fire. Its a beautiful thing.

We simply will not allow Zion to continue the genocide in Gaza.
Click to expand...

A beautiful thing would have been forcing Hamas into a ceasefire before October 7th. Funny how that never happens.

Instead, the pattern is always that Hamas breaks a ceasefire, and then demands one when Israel retaliates. They **** around, but never want to find out. Why are you happy about enabling that?

Oh. Of course. I didn't even need to ask.
 
There is a large and growing percentage of Israelis who feel that the best response to 10/7 is an increase in activity that reinforces and expands Jewish homesteads. In other words, instead of bringing about a reduction in Jewish communities across the entire land area, there will be the opposite effect.
 
webfusion said:
There is a large and growing percentage of Israelis who feel that the best response to 10/7 is an increase in activity that reinforces and expands Jewish homesteads. In other words, instead of bringing about a reduction in Jewish communities across the entire land area, there will be the opposite effect.
Click to expand...

That's fine. It will lead to one of two outcomes: the one-state solution where both peoples live side-by side as equal citizens of the same country from the Sea to the River, or Israel becoming a true racist Apartheid state and will face strong economic & diplomatic sanctions and isolation from the entire world.
 
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I see no reason for a cease fire until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

At the same time however, Israel ought to get its own terrorists into prison. Hard to see that happening when extremist settler activists with a history of encouraging terrorism and honoring murderers have high positions in the government.
 
Regarding the entire concept of a ceasefire ---

See: 1949. Island of Rhodes. Armistices (cease-fire in-place, Separation of Forces Agreements)

Anyone who even remotely wants to know about the "1967 Borders" (the so-called PalestineState parameters) should read the documents and see what they literally say.

Here is a link to copies of the originals.
https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/pea...ingdom-Israel General Armistice Agreement.pdf

This is Israel/Palestine 101, but it's amazing how many still aren't aware of the 1949 ceasefire accords.

I call attention specifically to Article II, para. 2
and Article VI, paras. 8 and 9

You're welcome. (The lines of 1949 were NOT borders)
 
Hercules56 said:
That's fine. It will lead to one of two outcomes: the one-state solution where both peoples live side-by side as equal citizens of the same country from the Sea to the River, or Israel becoming a true racist Apartheid state and will face strong economic & diplomatic sanctions and isolation from the entire world.
Click to expand...

You are neglecting to mention the possible third outcome.
A NewState in Gaza/N.sinai that fulfils the aspirations and deams of Palestinians worldwide to build and develop their own Nation in statu ascendi.

By the way, you must be aware that Israel RIGHT NOW is under strong economic and diplomatic sanctions. We have few friends and the UN is useless. Insurance companies are prohibiting the transit of their clients' aircraft, ships, trains (just kidding, Israel has no international rail nor road access to the North, South, East or West!)

Did you see the demonstration a few days ago in Washington DC?
What did the signs say?
Did even ONE sign say "Peace" (it's just one word, not too complicated)
Nope. I looked very closely, and there wasn't even a little sign with the well-known symbol.

This entire fiasco has become a duel of displaying dead kids' images, and trying to gain sympathy about whose dead kids should be considered more important?

Next week, in DC, the Jewish community will attempt to garner a massive crowd (11/14) and honestly, they are fully entitled to express their views by assembling, but the organizers had better be careful.
All it takes are 3 or 4 radical islamists to turn that day into a bloodbath (See: April 15, 2013 Boston)
 
Oh, and one more thing (sorry for the multiple posts, there's lots of different angles to consider here)

Northern Gaza.
By the terms of the 1949 Rhodes Armistice Agreements (with Egypt) the Gaza Strip was defined on maps, with actual lines.
Those parameters form the basis of a claim by the Palestinians of what they consider "Their Lands" (let's leave aside the claim of ALL ARAB LANDS, which includes Israel itself).

As of today, those who talk about a ceasefire may not realize it, but Israel can argue properly that if we now enter into an official separation-of-forces ceasefire-in-place contract/agreement, the Palestinians can kiss the Northern Gaza area good-bye.

That's what happened in 1949, and I see no reason to think it couldn't again happen in 2023.
Israelis are very, very upset. Beyond what you can imagine, trust me.
The best action the people of Gaza can take right now is start to protesting loudly against their incompetent leaders. It's about the only thing that would even begin to reassure us that any type of Palestine State is a worthwhile goal at all.
 
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Puppycow said:
I see no reason for a cease fire until Hamas is utterly destroyed.

At the same time however, Israel ought to get its own terrorists into prison. Hard to see that happening when extremist settler activists with a history of encouraging terrorism and honoring murderers have high positions in the government.
Click to expand...

Also needed to reply to this one ---
Right now, the settlers are freaking out. They know all too well that murderous infiltrations are being planned by Hamas upon their communities. (see: Fogel family)

After this war, there will be new elections in Israel. That can be the subject of another thread topic.
 
Hercules56 said:
The USA is forcing Israel to cease-fire. Its a beautiful thing.

We simply will not allow Zion to continue the genocide in Gaza.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile, in the real world Netanyahu announced no cease-fire without the return of the hostages. How's that "forcing Israel to cease-fire" working out?
:rolleyes:
 
Puppycow said:
One Palestinian Human Rights Activist's opinion:

Hamas's Terrorism Isn't Only Aimed At Israel but Against My Palestinian Brothers and Sisters in Gaza
Click to expand...

Yep. About ten years ago I concluded that the true practical aim of terrorism was to destabilize local or regional governance to the point where the terrorists could set up their own fiefdoms to rule as they saw fit. The removal of Jews from Israel and the removal of Israel from the map is an aspirational goal for Hamas. Exploiting Gazans for their own profit is a real, practical achievement.
 
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Brainster said:
Meanwhile, in the real world Netanyahu announced no cease-fire without the return of the hostages. How's that "forcing Israel to cease-fire" working out?
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'd say its much more likely that Israel is no longer bombing Gaza because they are out of high value targets, and are focusing on the ground operation, rather than Biden "made them".
 
webfusion said:
You are neglecting to mention the possible third outcome.
A NewState in Gaza/N.sinai that fulfils the aspirations and deams of Palestinians worldwide to build and develop their own Nation in statu ascendi.

By the way, you must be aware that Israel RIGHT NOW is under strong economic and diplomatic sanctions. We have few friends and the UN is useless. Insurance companies are prohibiting the transit of their clients' aircraft, ships, trains (just kidding, Israel has no international rail nor road access to the North, South, East or West!)

Did you see the demonstration a few days ago in Washington DC?
What did the signs say?
Did even ONE sign say "Peace" (it's just one word, not too complicated)
Nope. I looked very closely, and there wasn't even a little sign with the well-known symbol.

This entire fiasco has become a duel of displaying dead kids' images, and trying to gain sympathy about whose dead kids should be considered more important?

Next week, in DC, the Jewish community will attempt to garner a massive crowd (11/14) and honestly, they are fully entitled to express their views by assembling, but the organizers had better be careful.
All it takes are 3 or 4 radical islamists to turn that day into a bloodbath (See: April 15, 2013 Boston)
Click to expand...

Meanwhile its the Zionists who have been showing up to anti-Israel protests armed with illegal guns.
 
webfusion said:
Also needed to reply to this one ---
Right now, the settlers are freaking out. They know all too well that murderous infiltrations are being planned by Hamas upon their communities. (see: Fogel family)

After this war, there will be new elections in Israel. That can be the subject of another thread topic.
Click to expand...

The Colonizers should be worried, as they are colluding with a war crime. If they are lucky they will not be treated as unlawful combatants even though they are heavily armed.
 
Hercules56 said:
The Colonizers should be worried, as they are colluding with a war crime. If they are lucky they will not be treated as unlawful combatants even though they are heavily armed.
Click to expand...

Are you conjecturing that Hamas might treat IDF as unlawful combatants and not honor Geneva conventions :confused: I'd say its a pretty ******* safe bet they won't.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Are you conjecturing that Hamas might treat IDF as unlawful combatants and not honor Geneva conventions :confused: I'd say its a pretty ******* safe bet they won't.
Click to expand...

No I think Hamas might treat the illegal racist Colonizers (aka West Bank settlers) as unlawful combatants.
 
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