General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[Dr.Sid]

All Ohios are converted. Did somebody really thought US would send SSBN there ?

EDIT: I stand corrected, not all were converted. Still the second part holds.

 

[lobosrul5]

On the contrary, the warning is clearly directed towards Tel Aviv. The message?

"If you nuke Gaza, we will nuke you. So mind your manners."

That seems.... just incredibly unlikely. For one thing you might want to look at a map of just how close some pretty big Israeli cities are to Gaza. And then lookup the effects of nuclear fallout. And for the other, Israel is our ally by treaty.

 

[webfusion]

Did somebody really thought US would send SSBN there ?
Dr Sid, look at the URL in this link -- what does it indicate?

businessinsider.com/navy-ohio-class-ballistic-submarine-arrived-in-mediterranean-israel-gaza-2023

My bad, I didn't open the link, just noted what was written in the link by hovering over it.
It would have been nice if I had gone one more step, though!

 

[webfusion]

That seems.... just incredibly unlikely. For one thing you might want to look at a map of just how close some pretty big Israeli cities are to Gaza. And then lookup the effects of nuclear fallout. And for the other, Israel is our ally by treaty.

I don't know that Israel and the USA actually have an official treaty but there is a "Major non-NATO ally" (MNNA) classification that exists (Egypt also).


ALL of Israel is 'close to Gaza' -- When I was assigned to IDF bases in Gaza over the years, I loved the proximity to my home, and I simply drove up the highway at every opportunity (yeah, I drove my car into Gaza, as there were no restrictions back then). Ahh, those were the days.

Israel is nine-miles wide from the WestBank to the coast at Netanya.

 

[Leumas]

Seems like when it comes to Palestinian history, you believe everybody is stupid except for you.

Now please explain to us why the PLO is wrong and the United Nations is wrong, because the Palestinians are not Arabs .....

The Palestinians aren't Arabs???

LOL, since when?....

Judging by the lack of further ridicule as shown below... that you now have read (properly) the answer to the above as given in this post.

And thus your ridicule as below was regrettable... right?

Your claim, is ignorantly absurd.

...Palestinians "Arabs" is one of the most historically flawed arguments I have ever seen on this forum. You should really step back immediately before you dig all the way to China.
Seriously. I don't want to release the kraken but I will if you force me.

And that now you agree that I do indeed

... know more about the Palestinians then the Palestinians themselves and the greater Arab community.

...know more about the Palestinians than the Palestinian people themselves???

And that you no longer find it

Unbelievable.

And that you now appreciate

White Education's privilege at its finest.

And that educated people who know history and geography and anthropology and sociology and geography... and did I say history already... no matter what color they are... CAN AND SHOULD educate

... people who they are and what they are and what their history is.

To disabuse them of the effects of brainwashing and propaganda and nationalism and racism and MYTHS.... especially when enforced upon them by their conquerors and enemies.... but more egregiously of all... their own society through indoctrination into the lies their parents were inculcated into.

 

[Leumas]

By using that false epithet.

Calling the Palestinians Arabs because they speak Arabic is like calling the Mexican natives Hispanics because they speak Spanish.

And then the Xenophobic supremacist Settler Colonialists use fallacies and propaganda such as "Land Without a people for a people without a land" and "Squatters" and then turn around and say "they are arabs and there are many arab states why don't they just go there to where they came from and leave us poor oppressed homeless Settler Colonialists with that little piece of land that does not belong to them... but was promised by the god 65% of us do not believe in to a guy 100% of sane people know was a myth".

....

And ironically here is the proof... not very long after...

The 'Arab World' consists of 22 countries in the Middle East and North Africa: Algeria, Bahrain, the Comoros Islands, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

Israel is less than 22,000 sq.miles of land area.It is home to a robust mixture of people.
Including Ba'hai....

 

[webfusion]

And ironically here is the proof... not very long after...

Proof of what, exactly?

My post contained statements of fact.

The goal of Israel's current war is to assure that Gazans will be able to have a bright future, by dismantling the Jihadists who have failed to go beyond "Kill the Jews" and rejected all attempts at peace.

Gaza is a nice place to live.
Nobody should need to (or be forced to) leave.

 

[Leumas]

Proof of what, exactly?

Of the ruse Zionists use by calling Palestinians "Arabs"...

My post contained statements of fact.

It is nothing but CASUISTRY for Zionism to justify Apartheid and Ethnic Cleansing and yet another ruse... "we are only retaliating against foreign usurpers" to hoodwink as to who is in fact the foreign usurpers as European Settler Colonialists ethnically cleansing a land of its autochthonous natives.

The goal of Israel's current war is to assure that Gazans will be able to have a bright future, by dismantling the Jihadists who have failed to go beyond "Kill the Jews" and rejected all attempts at peace.

That is not true and is proven by history... and present facts.

• Long before any Hamas islamic terrorists ever existed Israel was making a concentration apartheid camp out of Gaza
• West Bank does not and did not have any islamic moronic terrorists but it is still insidiously robbed of its territory and confined behind a wall of apartheid

Gaza is a nice place to live.
Nobody should need to (or be forced to) leave.

Hahahaha... European Christians used to say the same about their ghettos and pogroms... and so did the Afrikaans about their Bantustans and the early Settler Colonialists in the Americas and Australia about their reservations.

 

[webfusion]

Of the ruse Zionists use by calling Palestinians "Arabs"...

I have called them Palestinians.
What should I call them?
Goobers?

It is nothing but CASUISTRY for Zionism to justify Apartheid and Ethnic Cleansing and yet another ruse... "we are only retaliating against foreign usurpers" to hoodwink as to who is in fact the foreign usurpers as European Settler Colonialists ethnically cleansing a land of its autochthonous natives.

Big words.
This entire issue of who lives here, who should live here, who has rights to live here, and on and on, is not worth my time to continue with you. This is a 4-part thread of thousands of comments, and we've gone all over this too many times to count, in circles, up and down, over and out.
We are here, we are going to remain here. Deal with it.

That is not true and is proven by history... and present facts.

• Long before any Hamas islamic terrorists ever existed Israel was making a concentration apartheid camp out of Gaza
• West Bank does not and did not have any islamic moronic terrorists but it is still insidiously robbed of its territory and confined behind a wall of apartheid

What?
Gaza's boundaries were defined in 1906.

No islamic jihadists in the WestBank? Really? Allah Hu-Snackbar.

Hahahaha... European Christians used to say the same about their ghettos and pogroms... and so did the Afrikaans about their Bantustans and the early Settler Colonialists in the Americas and Australia about their reservations.

I loved being in Gaza back in the day. It was really relaxing and peaceful.
You should plan a trip there soon, I hear their resorts will be reopening in the not-too-distant future.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...Reviews-Blue_Beach_Resort-Gaza_City_Gaza.html

 

[Ziggurat]

On the contrary, the warning is clearly directed towards Tel Aviv. The message?

"If you nuke Gaza, we will nuke you. So mind your manners."

This is mind-numbingly stupid. Nobody with any clue thinks Israel would nuke Gaza. They have maintained strategic ambiguity about their nuclear arsenal for decades for a reason, they aren't going to give that up now. They don't need nukes to level the place if that's their goal. So why the hell would we threaten them over something we know they won't do regardless? What kind of an idiot would think that's worth doing?

 

[Puppycow]

One Palestinian Human Rights Activist's opinion:

Hamas's Terrorism Isn't Only Aimed At Israel but Against My Palestinian Brothers and Sisters in Gaza

Hamas's actions are not merely a political maneuver. They reveal a moral bankruptcy that holds the lives of Gaza's 2.2 million Palestinians as ransom. As the international community and Israel work to ensure that humanitarian aid reaches those in need, Hamas's unyielding grip on power remains the principal obstacle to relief and peace. The audacity of this group to pilfer fuel meant for emergency services and manipulate the desperation of Gazans for tactical advantages is not just reprehensible; it is an act of terrorism by any definition.

And here's more truth: It is Hamas that is holding its own people hostage as human shields. An audio recording published by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) revealed Hamas putting up roadblocks to prevent Gazans from moving away from the area that Israel had called on them to evacuate. Hamas's callous nature toward its people's rights includes storing weapons and other targets of military value next to schools, hospitals, and mosques. They want to kill Israelis and have Israelis kill their people and lose global support. Either is a win for them.

 

[webfusion]

One Palestinian Human Rights Activist's opinion:

Hamas's Terrorism Isn't Only Aimed At Israel but Against My Palestinian Brothers and Sisters in Gaza

I have offered this article before, but it's important to throw it out there again.
"Clearly, Gaza needs to be built from scratch. The rubble of its violent past has to be swept away with its ideology. It must not be mismanaged by those whose principles led to its ruin. It must be led by people rejecting its violent past, totally dedicated to making Gaza a better place to live rather than looking obsessively at other territories they do not possess."
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/379516

When the phrase Free Palestine is used, we reply "Free Gaza From Hamas"
Let's start there.

In New York City today that was exactly what the large protest there was about.
Hopefully it spreads.

 

[webfusion]

It's early Tuesday morning in Tel Aviv.
An eerie quiet and people starting their day, keeping one ear on the news.

This video was produced FIVE years ago.
https://www.facebook.com/TheNewStateSolution

What is everyone waiting for?
Place it into action, and start implementing the process to make it come about.
I see no other realistic alternative at this point.

 

[Brainster]

On the contrary, the warning is clearly directed towards Tel Aviv. The message?

"If you nuke Gaza, we will nuke you. So mind your manners."

Seriously, you are way off with this post. First, Israel will not nuke Gaza, and even if they did, we would not nuke Israel.

 

[Puppycow]

Something that had flown under the radar for me:

Israel Must Loudly Arrest the Murderous West Bank Settlers

Since Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack, settlers there have killed more than 120 Palestinians and injured at least 2,000. They have forcibly expelled more than 800 Palestinians from their homes, blown up their generators and solar panels, and burned down tents of Bedouin herders.

This has been going on not in Gaza but in the West Bank—which is governed by the Palestinian Authority, not by Hamas. Some of those killed were members of militant groups, but most were attacked simply because they were Palestinians. In any case, they had nothing to do with Hamas’ attack on Israel from Gaza.

Yet Israeli officials have since said nothing about the settlers’ violence, not even after at least one incident where settlers attacked Israeli soldiers who were trying to stop their crimes.

Is Israel allowing their own citizens to attack innocent Palestinians living in the West Bank and not doing anything to stop them? They are going to lose the moral high ground if they allow this.

 

[webfusion]

Something that had flown under the radar for me: (* snipped linky *)

Is Israel allowing their own citizens to attack innocent Palestinians living in the West Bank and not doing anything to stop them? They are going to lose the moral high ground if they allow this.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/25/midd...eli-settler-violent-terrorism-intl/index.html

Over the summer, the article reports that "The recent uptick in violence peaked on Wednesday, when Israeli settlers attacked the Palestinian village of Turmusayya in the occupied West Bank, the day after the killing of four Jewish settlers nearby."

Why were these Israeli civilians killed? It was in retaliation to an Israeli military operation in the Jenin area on Monday, which left seven Palestinians dead and 91 injured, according to the UN.

(OK, so was there any response from Israeli leadership? Absolutely.)
“In recent days, violent attacks have been carried out by Israelis in Judea and Samaria against innocent Palestinians,” the Chief of the Israeli General Staff, Gen. Herzi Halevi, the Director of the Israel Security Agency [ISA], Ronen Bar and Israel’s Police Commissioner, Yaakov Shabtai, said in a statement.

“These reprisal ("price tag") actions by the settlers contradict every moral and Jewish value; they constitute, in every way, nationalist terrorism, and we are obliged to fight (stop) them."

Here is a closer look regarding this topic --->
https://imeu.org/article/6-things-to-remember-when-covering-israeli-settler-violence
(consider the source, YMMV)

 

[Hercules56]

It's early Tuesday morning in Tel Aviv.
An eerie quiet and people starting their day, keeping one ear on the news.

This video was produced FIVE years ago.
https://www.facebook.com/TheNewStateSolution

What is everyone waiting for?
Place it into action, and start implementing the process to make it come about.
I see no other realistic alternative at this point.

The USA is forcing Israel to cease-fire. Its a beautiful thing.

We simply will not allow Zion to continue the genocide in Gaza.

 

[Puppycow]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/25/midd...eli-settler-violent-terrorism-intl/index.html

Over the summer, the article reports that "The recent uptick in violence peaked on Wednesday, when Israeli settlers attacked the Palestinian village of Turmusayya in the occupied West Bank, the day after the killing of four Jewish settlers nearby."

Why were these Israeli civilians killed? It was in retaliation to an Israeli military operation in the Jenin area on Monday, which left seven Palestinians dead and 91 injured, according to the UN.

(OK, so was there any response from Israeli leadership? Absolutely.)
“In recent days, violent attacks have been carried out by Israelis in Judea and Samaria against innocent Palestinians,” the Chief of the Israeli General Staff, Gen. Herzi Halevi, the Director of the Israel Security Agency [ISA], Ronen Bar and Israel’s Police Commissioner, Yaakov Shabtai, said in a statement.

“These reprisal ("price tag") actions by the settlers contradict every moral and Jewish value; they constitute, in every way, nationalist terrorism, and we are obliged to fight (stop) them."

Words only?
From the link:

Israeli security forces have recently ramped up armed hostilities against Palestinian militants, amid Netanyahu’s campaign for illegal settlers’ outposts to be expanded and turned into full settlements.

Here is a closer look regarding this topic --->
https://imeu.org/article/6-things-to-remember-when-covering-israeli-settler-violence
(consider the source, YMMV)[/QUOTE]

2. Extremist settlers hold powerful positions in Israel’s government and condone and encourage settler violence against Palestinians.

Israel’s government includes notorious extremists and settlers in senior positions, most notably National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich. Ben-Gvir, who controls Israel’s domestic police and its paramilitary border police in the occupied West Bank, lives in one of the most radical Israeli settlements in the West Bank and has a long history of inciting racism and violence against Palestinians, including a conviction for supporting a terrorist organization.
In August 2023, Ben-Gvir praised a settler who murdered a 19-year-old Palestinian man, calling him a “hero.” In June 2023, he defended young settlers who rampaged through the West Bank attacking Palestinians and torching their homes and cars, calling them “sweet kids.” Until recently, for many years Ben-Gvir had a framed photo of the U.S.-born settler who massacred 29 Palestinians in Hebron in the West Bank in 1994 hanging in a place of honor in his home. (See here for more on Ben-Gvir and Smotrich)

This is the part where I suddenly lose my sympathy for Israel. As outraged as I was to read about the atrocities of Oct. 7th, to read that members of Israel's own government honor and encourage terrorism.

 

[Hercules56]

Words only?
From the link:

This is the part where I suddenly lose my sympathy for Israel. As outraged as I was to read about the atrocities of Oct. 7th, to read that members of Israel's own government honor and encourage terrorism.

Ironic when those who scream about terrorism, honor and adore terrorists. Perhaps we should ignore their screams.

 

[webfusion]

puppycow -- ..."to read that members of Israel's own government honor and encourage terrorism."-

Have you ever heard or read about Menachem Begin?