General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[Leumas]

Curious, then, that one of the biggest stumbling blocks to any peace deal has been the so-called 'right of return' of Palestinian 'refugees'.
First- to explain the quote marks. For centuries, 'Palestinian' meant anyone living in Palestine: the current usage denoting a distinct and separate nation is essentially a fiction.

But the right of "return" for Europeans following a particular religion to a land they claim is promised to them 4200 years ago, by a god 65% of Israelis do not believe exists to a MYTHICAL character in a fairy tales... is legitimate?

...the current usage denoting a distinct and separate nation is essentially a fiction.

But people worshiping a particular god from China and India and Africa and Germany and Poland and Russia and every where around the world... were a nation?

And these people of all the distinct and separate nations from around the world have more "right to return" and displace people from their ancestral lands and farms and cities and houses because Zionist Settler Colonials falsify history and reality and decency and morality in order to rationalize for themselves their ethnic cleansing and apartheid and racism and genocide?

 

[Leumas]

Your claim, is ignorantly absurd.

See the updated 1968 Charter for the Palestine Liberation Organization:

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp

Article 1:
Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Article 2:
Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 3:
The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will.

Article 4:
The Palestinian identity is a genuine, essential, and inherent characteristic; it is transmitted from parents to children. The Zionist occupation and the dispersal of the Palestinian Arab people, through the disasters which befell them, do not make them lose their Palestinian identity and their membership in the Palestinian community, nor do they negate them.

Article 5:
The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father - whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian.

The people who wrote those articles are as ignorant of history and reality as you are.


And you still do not understand that calling those people Arabs has been a justification for Zionist settler colonialists from Russia and Poland and Germany and even India and Africa to deny the ownership of the land they were born unto for millennia of generations and to snatch their lands and farms and cities and houses... claiming the propaganda lies that they "come from other lands" just like those Europeans (and other places) Zionist settler colonials and thus have no more claim to the land than they do.... since they are "arabs".

Speaking a language of one's conqueror after centuries of occupation does not make the conquered become the same ethnicity as the conqueror.

And if only you knew the history... the REAL history... not the propaganda and lies repeated even by the ignorant clueless Palestinians themselves too.

 

[webfusion]

The 'Arab World' consists of 22 countries in the Middle East and North Africa: Algeria, Bahrain, the Comoros Islands, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

Israel is less than 22,000 sq.miles of land area.
It is home to a robust mixture of people.
Including Ba'hai. Name another place on earth that the Ba'hai are comfortable in. (Iran?)

"...ethnic cleansing and apartheid and racism and genocide?" You hit the superfecta with that sentence.

 

[Leumas]

Leaumas, I am pretty sure you used the word epithet (which is a synonym of "insult" and "perjorative")

Do you have a dictionary? Use it.

"An epithet is a term of abuse." -- from Oxford Dictionary.

No it is not... I do not know what "oxford" dictionary you are using but

epithet

​an adjective or phrase that is used to describe somebody/something’s character or most important quality, especially in order to give praise or criticism

• The film is long and dramatic but does not quite earn the epithet ‘epic’.

​

 

[Leumas]

The 'Arab World' consists of 22 countries in the Middle East and North Africa: Algeria, Bahrain, the Comoros Islands, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

So? Does that justify taking one of those by LGBTQ people because they are severely persecuted and discriminated against all around the world where they come from?

Maybe we should carve out the area believed to be Sodom and give it to them?

Name another place on earth that the Ba'hai are comfortable in.

Australia, Canada, the USA, England, etc. etc.

So you are saying that a cult of Iranians have more rights to the land of the Palestinians because they are persecuted for their cultic believes in Iran than the Palestinians who should be ethnically cleansed of their ancestral homes and carted off to an "Arab" country to make space for some Iranian cult members?

"...ethnic cleansing and apartheid and racism and genocide?" You hit the superfecta with that sentence.

Yup... it is what Israel is... and you just admitted it above.

 

[webfusion]

The people who wrote those articles are as ignorant of history and reality as you are.

I suggest you write some letters to the Palestine Liberation Organization and explain to them the errors within their Charter
They really need your input.

1320 18th Street, NW Suite # 200, Washington D.C.20036

 

[Leumas]

By using that false epithet.
....
And then the Xenophobic supremacist Settler Colonialists use fallacies and propaganda such as "Land Without a people for a people without a land" and "Squatters" and then turn around and say "they are arabs and there are many arab states why don't they just go there to where they came from and leave us poor oppressed homeless Settler Colonialists with that little piece of land that does not belong to them... but was promised by the god 65% of us do not believe in to a guy 100% of sane people know was a myth".
...

Your claim, is ignorantly absurd.

But it has just been proven arrantly correct by this post

The 'Arab World' consists of 22 countries in the Middle East and North Africa: Algeria, Bahrain, the Comoros Islands, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.

Israel is less than 22,000 sq.miles of land area.
It is home to a robust mixture of people.
Including Ba'hai. Name another place on earth that the Ba'hai are comfortable in. (Iran?)

"...ethnic cleansing and apartheid and racism and genocide?" You hit the superfecta with that sentence.

 

[Leumas]

I suggest you write some letters to the Palestine Liberation Organization and explain to them the errors within their Charter
They really need your input.

1320 18th Street, NW Suite # 200, Washington D.C.20036

Ah... so now you are singing the accolades of the Palestinian Authority as an authority you trust?

 

[webfusion]

Do you have a dictionary? Use it.

Dictionary.com (which is, obviously, a decent dictionary source) says: "a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc."

(definition #3)

Not sure what you're trying to achieve with this, but it's not working.

 

[Hercules56]

The people who wrote those articles are as ignorant of history and reality as you are.


And you still do not understand that calling those people Arabs has been a justification for Zionist settler colonialists from Russia and Poland and Germany and even India and Africa to deny the ownership of the land they were born unto for millennia of generations and to snatch their lands and farms and cities and houses... claiming the propaganda lies that they "come from other lands" just like those Europeans (and other places) Zionist settler colonials and thus have no more claim to the land than they do.... since they are "arabs".

Speaking a language of one's conqueror after centuries of occupation does not make the conquered become the same ethnicity as the conqueror.

And if only you knew the history... the REAL history... not the propaganda and lies repeated even by the ignorant clueless Palestinians themselves too.

Wow, you think you know more about the Palestinians than the Palestinian people themselves???

It's somehow an attack to acknowledge they are Arabs?

Talk about white arrogance and white privilege, telling non-white people who they are and what they are and what their history is.

Unbelievable.

 

[webfusion]

Ah... so now you are singing the accolades of the Palestinian Authority as an authority you trust?

I have no particular axe to grind with the PLO/PNA right now. (the PLO -- Fatah -- is not equal to the PNA, but rather, one party in a coalition of government, which, honestly, also includes the political branch of Hamas!)

It was you, however, that indicated they are wrong.
I merely suggested you could contact them, and explain your position.
Be sure to say that you're providing the correct information to them in order to dispel "the propaganda and lies repeated even by the ignorant clueless Palestinians themselves."

 

[Leumas]

Wow, you think you know more about the Palestinians than the Palestinian people themselves???

Historical truths are objective and can be discerned by any educated person... I do not have to be a Palestinian to know Palestinian historical facts.

It is also yet another irrefragable fact that PROPAGANDA lies distort any truths... just like the Nazis were not descended from Übermenschen Aryans from Atlantis just because some German guys said it and believed it.

The Master Race

The Nazi theorist Alfred Rosenberg believed that the "Nordic race" was descended from Proto-Indo-Europeans, who he believed had pre-historically dwelt on the North German Plain and may have ultimately originated on the lost island of Atlantis. The Nazis declared that the Aryans were superior to all other races, and believed they were entitled to expand territorially. The actual policy that was implemented by the Nazis resulted in the Aryan certificate. This document, which was required by law for all citizens of the Reich, was the "Lesser Aryan certificate" (Kleiner Ariernachweis) and could be obtained through an Ahnenpass, which required the owner to trace their lineage through baptism, birth certificates, or certified proof thereof that all grandparents were of "Aryan descent".

It's somehow an attack to acknowledge they are Arabs?

Yet another strawmanning... I suggest you read my post again and slowly and carefully... and read the proof for its words in this post.

Talk about white arrogance and white privilege, telling non-white people who they are and what they are and what their history is.

Haha... it does not matter what color one is... FACTS can be learned by anyone who cares to LEARN about them... and ignorant people of any color do not know the FACTS and thus can be taught them by anyone of no matter what color.

 

[Hercules56]

Historical truths are objective and can be discerned by any educated person... I do not have to be a Palestinian to know Palestinian historical facts.

It is also yet another irrefragable fact that PROPAGANDA lies distort any truths... just like the Nazis were not descended from Übermenschen Aryans from Atlantis just because some German guys said it and believed it.

The Master Race






Yet another strawmanning... I suggest you read my post again and slowly and carefully... and read the proof for its words in this post.





Haha... it does not matter what color one is... FACTS can be learned by anyone who cares to LEARN about them... and ignorant people of any color do not know the FACTS and thus can be taught them by anyone of no matter what color.

So you think you know more about the Palestinians then the Palestinians themselves and the greater Arab community.

White privilege at its finest.

 

[webfusion]

So you think you know more about the Palestinians than the Palestinians themselves and the greater Arab community.

*snip*

Apparently yes, that's exactly what he (or she) is claiming.

 

[Leumas]

Leaumas, I am pretty sure you used the word epithet (which is a synonym of "insult" and "perjorative")

"An epithet is a term of abuse." -- from Oxford Dictionary.

epithet (from the Oxford dictionary)

​an adjective or phrase that is used to describe somebody/something’s character or most important quality, especially in order to give praise or criticism

• The film is long and dramatic but does not quite earn the epithet ‘epic’.

So it was NOT from the Oxford dictionary... was it?

Dictionary.com (which is, obviously, a decent dictionary source) says: "a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc."

(definition #3)

Epithet (from Dictionary.com)

noun

1. any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an actual or attributed quality:
   “Richard the Lion-Hearted” is an epithet of Richard I.
   
   
2. a characterizing word or phrase firmly associated with a person or thing and often used in place of an actual name, title, or the like,
   
   as “man's best friend” for “dog.”​
   
   
3. a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc.:
   
   He demeans his female employees by addressing them with sexist epithets.​
4. Botany, Zoology. specific epithet.

So you chose to strawman the THIRD meaning that you decided suits your purposes to strawman my post???

And yes... you strawmanned that third meaning... if you read it properly it does not say that the word epithet MEANS it is a pejorative or insult... the meaning given in that THIRD entry means that a term that is pejorative is an epithet... not that the word epithet is a synonym for the word pejorative.

So you used Dictionary.com... and wrongly called it The Oxford Dictionary...

Then you used the THRID meaning instead of the 1st or second.

Then you misunderstood what that third entry is saying.

All in the effort to misunderstand the words of my post....

WOW....

Not sure what you're trying to achieve with this, but it's not working.

ETA: in fact I am very sure what you are doing here... but it clearly is not working because fortunately these days CORRECT INFORMATION is readily available to debunk any attempts at giving out wrong information.

 

[Hercules56]

epithet (from the Oxford dictionary)

​an adjective or phrase that is used to describe somebody/something’s character or most important quality, especially in order to give praise or criticism

• The film is long and dramatic but does not quite earn the epithet ‘epic’.

So it was NOT from the Oxford dictionary... was it?




Epithet (from Dictionary.com)

noun

1. any word or phrase applied to a person or thing to describe an actual or attributed quality:
   “Richard the Lion-Hearted” is an epithet of Richard I.
   
   
2. a characterizing word or phrase firmly associated with a person or thing and often used in place of an actual name, title, or the like,
   
   as “man's best friend” for “dog.”​
   
   
3. a word, phrase, or expression used invectively as a term of abuse or contempt, to express hostility, etc.:
   
   He demeans his female employees by addressing them with sexist epithets.​
4. Botany, Zoology. specific epithet.

So you chose to strawman the THIRD meaning that you decided suits your purposes to strawman my post???

And yes... you strawmanned that third meaning... if you read it properly it does not say that the word epithet MEANS it is a pejorative or insult... the meaning given in that THIRD entry means that a term that is pejorative is an epithet... not that the word epithet is a synonym for the word pejorative.

So you used Dictionary.com... and wrongly called it The Oxford Dictionary...

Then you used the THRID meaning instead of the 1st or second.

Then you misunderstood what that third entry is saying.

All in the effort to misunderstand the words of my post....

WOW....




ETA: in fact I am very sure what you are doing here... but it clearly is not working because fortunately these days CORRECT INFORMATION is readily available to debunk any attempts at giving out wrong information.

Please explain why the Palestinians are not Arabs, and its offensive and ignorant to label them as such.

 

[Leumas]

So you think you know more about the Palestinians then the Palestinians themselves and the greater Arab community.

Yes... that is what being educated and reading things that are not the Quran or the Bible or other fairy tales and propaganda as if they were facts, means.

White EDUCATION privilege at its finest.

 

[Hercules56]

Hmmm, even the UN calls them "Palestinian Arabs".

https://www.un.org/unispal/history/

 

[Hercules56]

Yes... that is what being educated and reading things that are not the Quran or the Bible or other fairy tales and propaganda as if they were facts, means.

Seems like when it comes to Palestinian history, you believe everybody is stupid except for you.

Huh.

Now please explain to us why the PLO is wrong and the United Nations is wrong, because the Palestinians are not Arabs and it is ignorant and offensive to call them such.

 

[Thermal]

* glances back at the rails the discussion seems to have flown off of*