Luton Airport Car Park Fire

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GlennB said:
Well, I'm now nervous about that baby Li-ion chainsaw that I sometimes recharge in this very living room. Could melt its way through the floor if I'm not careful.
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I've got one of those too. But to be fair, when I have a chainsaw, even a mini one, it isn't the battery that causes concern.
 
Vixen said:
The reason for the sloping floors is so that any leaking liquid, diesel or gasoline fuel, coolant, brake fluid, etcetera etcetera, drains away instead of pooling.
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:rolleyes:
It has far more to do with rain....
 
Foster Zygote said:
And the chances of your vehicle catching fire if you are not in an accident? Is it zero? If you think it's zero, then say so, right now.

Link



There are an average of 19 vehicle fires per hour in the U.S. alone.

The NFPA ranks the ten leading causes of vehicle fires, from most to least common, as:

1 - Fuel system leaks
2 - Electrical faults
3 - Spilled fluids
4 - Overheating engine
5 - Overheating catalytic converter
6 - Hybrid and EV batteries
7 - Arson
8 - Car crashes
9 - Poor maintenance
10 - Design flaws

So your implication that a gasoline or diesel car can't catch fire unless it's involved in a collision are seen to be completely false, and made in gross ignorance.

Note that Li-ion hybrids and EVs are definitely on the list, although well below other causes that you have attempted to dismiss. No one has claimed that EVs never catch fire, and until the official investigation announced its finding of the vehicle type, that possibility was very much on the table. But after it was reported to be a diesel, you had to keep the CT going, so you started making baseless claims about the improbably of the source of the fire described by the investigation. But we see that the causes that you laughingly dismiss as ridiculously unlikely are actually the most common.
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I did not say "that a gasoline or diesel car can't catch fire unless it's involved in a collision ". Stop twisting my words to create yet another strawman. YOU claimed that an Audi Cabriolet caught fire after a crash. I simply pointed out that was not like-for-like with the Luton car. It is a matter of fact that a car crashing into you will make your car susceptible to catching fire. Check out the Maserati crash recently in Italy.

IN addition your statistics are meaningless out of context because over time, of course the vast majority of car fires are petrol/diesel. Nobody has argued they are not. Nobody has argued that they do not catch fire. If you understood statistics, you would know that EV's are a small percentage of cars on the road and probably being better maintained and service than most cars, many of them being leased company cars. If as another post claims, EV's are just 0.02% of cars on the road, of course they will not figure in decades-long statistics. In addition, they are relatively new. As they age with wear and tear, we will see their fire damage rates also increase. If anything, it seems to be quite dangerous for such a car to be involved in a crash given a bump can set off the cells int he q-lithium battery. OTOH the electronic system is designed to immediately switch off if there are danger signs from the battery so in that respect, electrical fires pertaining to operation systems are minimised, although quite a few EV drivers have found themselves 'trapped' in their car as they had no idea how to release the door lock in such an emergency.

You keep trying to circumvent the point that the type of fire as seen in the grainy Luton picture looks like a classic q-battery fire and not a fuel tank one.
 
whoanellie said:
Are there countries where the parking garages are not well-ventilated? Can you imagine a reason that might be a problem?
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Can't speak for the rest of the world because in some countries underground carparks are very common in others, not so much. Each will have their own building standards and regulations. But yes, car park builders in the UK do need to refer to the Building Regulations for the mandatory specifications.
 
Vixen said:
You keep trying to circumvent the point that the type of fire as seen in the grainy Luton picture looks like a classic q-battery fire and not a fuel tank one.
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It was a diesel car, it's been confirmed by the fire service.
 
Mojo said:
Note that here, Vixen has manoeuvred into a position where even if the "fire chief" himself were to call a press conference and explicitly state that the car was definitely not an EV or hybrid, that would just be "the party line". There is now no source that can definitively confirm, to Vixen's satisfaction, that it was a diesel car.
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Do not twist my words. What I said is that the official line - whether it be the Prime Minister, the CEO of a firm, Chief Police Officer or Fire Officer, that is the official line and that is the go to for reputable news agencies when they require a source.

The relevant web pages for these bodies do not diverge from this official line. They may of course 'put it into simple English' so that it reads like a FB page or a brief information page for casual browsers. Webpages aren't usually a good source for news they are for information and mission statements, 'About Us'.
 
Vixen said:
Do not twist my words. What I said is that the official line - whether it be the Prime Minister, the CEO of a firm, Chief Police Officer or Fire Officer, that is the official line and that is the go to for reputable news agencies when they require a source.

The relevant web pages for these bodies do not diverge from this official line. They may of course 'put it into simple English' so that it reads like a FB page or a brief information page for casual browsers. Webpages aren't usually a good source for news they are for information and mission statements, 'About Us'.
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You just made that up.
 
Vixen said:
I simply pointed out that was not like-for-like with the Luton car. It is a matter of fact that a car crashing into you will make your car susceptible to catching fire.
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You're striving hard to miss the point. The video illustrated how fiercely modern cars burn if they catch fire.
 
Vixen said:
Can't speak for the rest of the world because in some countries underground carparks are very common in others, not so much. Each will have their own building standards and regulations. But yes, car park builders in the UK do need to refer to the Building Regulations for the mandatory specifications.
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:rolleyes:
This does not even attemot to answer the question put to you.
 
Vixen said:
You keep trying to circumvent the point that the type of fire as seen in the grainy Luton picture looks like a classic q-battery fire and not a fuel tank one.
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No it doesn't, stop lying. And stop pretending you have the expertise to tell the difference.
 
Vixen said:
Note the arrival of the Fire Brigade at circa 3:33. They have the fire out with good old-fashioned water within five minutes.
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Consider what might have been different if they had arrived to find the burning car three floors up in a structure their truck couldn't enter, and if there were other cars within a couple of metres, and if a roof was keeping more of the heat in.
 
Vixen said:
Note the arrival of the Fire Brigade at circa 3:33. They have the fire out with good old-fashioned water within five minutes.
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How long do you think it would take to put out hundreds from outside a garage containing them?
 
Jack by the hedge said:
You're striving hard to miss the point. The video illustrated how fiercely modern cars burn if they catch fire.
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You re missing the point the fire brigade were there within minutes. Within half an houu they had to withdraw as the whole place was a raging inferno.

Have a look at this video at about 6:57 to get some idea of the sheer intensity of a lithium battery fire, which only needs some kind of pressure or internal fault to set it off.



https://youtu.be/t1j9TUV5coc?si=yhoi6xkgLrOcNlGB

This might help inform you why firefighters ended up being hospitalised with smoke inhalation within minutes and the entire fire brigade needing to withdraw to tackle the raging inferno from outside the building.

JLR by Username Vixen, on Flickr

At this stage, subject to verification, the Luton fire is consistent with a diesel hybrid fire, emanating from the lithium battery.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Consider what might have been different if they had arrived to find the burning car three floors up in a structure their truck couldn't enter, and if there were other cars within a couple of metres, and if a roof was keeping more of the heat in.
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BBC reported an eye witness who saw the fire as he descended into the airport and he said he saw a fire engine on the top level, so they could get in. Plus by law there needs to be a fire hydrant every X metres or so.

The fire started on Level 3, the one below the roof level so how did the heat get to such an intensity it permeated the ceiling within minutes? Major incident declared fifty minutes after the first call to 999. Half the time of the Liverpool fire, which started in two rows of thirty cars and was considered 'one of the worst' the fire brigade had encountered.
 
Vixen said:
You re missing the point the fire brigade were there within minutes.
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Very well then, what is your point on that matter? For example, tell us how many cars were already alight by the time the fire brigade's first fire fighting efforts began.
 
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