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Ed General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 3

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webfusion said:
What is LIKELY to happen? I think it is likely that without Hamas and the rest of those maniac jihadists, both in Gaza and across the hills of Judea and Samaria, the Palestinian Arabs can join the rest of civilization now in the 21st Century. They have been held back by the incredible failures of their leadership for so many years now, I've lost track.

By the way, Hamas revealed that seven of the captives were killed during the bombing inside the Jabliya neighborhood. OK, then let's see the bodies, turn them over to Red Crescent/Red Cross, for proper burial. (along with all other Israeli cadavers they hold). That's a reasonable ask, no?
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I don't know if another dictatorship is fully "joining civilization". Color me a skeptic or cynic. I'll stand by that.
 
The Atheist said:
I was thinking earlier what an excellent time it is to not acknowledge the New Testament. Not that it makes any difference to christians promoting wars, but it's good to have a guidebook that doesn't contradict the idea of sippenhaft and rape.
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In a recent speech the hypocritical mountebank yet again called upon the Bible (not the Torah or Tanakh) and slyly reminded the world of Genesis 12:1-3.


Watch the last bit of the video in this article

Also read this article

Here is the full video on YT
 
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The UN Israeli ambassador had a good speech. "If (these detractors) had been around in World War II, they'd have been screaming Britain's response should be proportional to the blitzkreig on London, no more than that."

To quote a meme, that's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
 
Leumas said:
They never did stop doing so... making an open air prison out of it is not stopping occupying it.
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What do you mean by "making an open-air prison out of it?" In 2005, the Jews who lived in Gaza were forced to leave (ethnic cleansing). Was Gaza an open air prison at that time? Who had internal responsibility for everything in the lives of the Gaza citizenry?
After this disengagement, Israel adhered to the 1949 Rhodes Armistice Lines ("borders" is what some people call these military cease-fire separation of forces-in-place lines, which is technically an incorrect term, but whatever). How is Israel supposed to act towards this de-facto State of Hamastan, what should we be doing that wasn't being done?

Anyway, I assume that Zangaza is referring to the 2014 Operation Protective Edge ground invasion, in his remark about 'the last time' the IDF went into Gaza with forces to stop the Hamas ("occupying Gaza" did not happen in that military campaign, but I understand him to be using that terminology to ask why Israel didn't 'destroy Hamas' then.)
 
Beerina said:
I don't know if another dictatorship is fully "joining civilization". Color me a skeptic or cynic. I'll stand by that.
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The ones who do not lick the boots of Israel according to YHWH's command (and of course Netanyahu's) or the boots of those who do lick Israel's boots... or have oil or gas... or are en route of gas/oil pipelines or supply routes... must be bombed into compliance.
 
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webfusion said:
Leumas said:
They never did stop doing so... making an open air prison out of it is not stopping occupying it.

The Germans did not stop occupying the Auschwitz part of Poland... The Afrikaans did not make another country out of their Bantustans.
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What do you mean by "making an open-air prison out of it?" In 2005, the Jews who lived in Gaza were forced to leave (ethnic cleansing).
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The Poles who were evacuated out of the area where Auschwitz was built... were they ethnically cleansed?


webfusion said:
Was Gaza an open air prison at that time?
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Was Auschwitz a concentration camp before it was made into one?


webfusion said:
Who had internal responsibility for everything in the lives of the Gaza citizenry?
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Who had internal responsibility for everything in the Polish citizenry of occupied Poland?


webfusion said:
After this disengagement, Israel adhered to the 1949 Rhodes Armistice Lines ("borders" is what some people call these military cease-fire separation of forces-in-place lines, which is technically an incorrect term, but whatever). How is Israel supposed to act towards this de-facto State of Hamastan, what should we be doing that wasn't being done?
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How did Nazi Germany deal with the Auschwitz concentration camp "citizenry"?
 
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webfusion said:
This conflict is not just between two sides.
It never has been, dating back all the way to the late 1800's.
Some of the participants in the conflict have indeed learned a lesson regarding rationality and self-interests. Jordan's King certainly understood which side of his toast gets the butter. Gen Sisi seems to know what's up. Even our arch-nemesis Assad jr. up there in Damascus, he's grokking.
Lebanon has a bit of a problem even functioning at all on any given day, so the last thing they want is a quick trip back into the Bronze Age.

Israel may be guilty of many things, but tossing rationality and comprehension out the window is not one of the faults displayed these days by the Israeli leadership and military.
They're making sure they cross their t's and dot their i's with the knowledge that the ICC is watching closely. Every mission is scrutinized beforehand by legal teams, literally.
Hamas, not so much.
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So how do you rate the tank shooting a car that was driving away? It seems like targeting non-combatants who are no immediate threat. Pretty much a war crime?

Or the multiple crimes committed by Jewish terrorists in the West Bank while the IDF looks on? Terrorists armed by the Israeli government, which takes no action against those terrorists. Sounds like a terrorist government?

Terrorism does not justify terrorism. War crimes do not justify war crimes.
 
Meanwhile, Hamas keeps offering eternal peace to the Israelis:

A Hamas leader has issued a chilling warning that the terror group's October 7 massacre will happen 'again and again' until Israel is 'annihilated' - vowing that the terrorists will pay any price to achieve their aims.
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Planigale said:
So how do you rate the tank shooting a car that was driving away? It seems like targeting non-combatants who are no immediate threat. Pretty much a war crime?
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I saw the video of the incident you refer to.
To me, it looked like a Hamas probe, I have no idea who was in that car, do you? For all I know, they were carrying an RPG in that car, and tried to get close to the tank, realized they didn't have a good angle (frontal, which is not gonna work against the Merkava) and decided to backtrack outta there, but the tank commander gave the order to fire and ended that episode.
Pretty much a war crime? Really? How about pretty much a standard combat action, and a successful one at that!


Or the multiple crimes committed by Jewish terrorists in the West Bank while the IDF looks on? Terrorists armed by the Israeli government, which takes no action against those terrorists. Sounds like a terrorist government?
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I read today that about 1000 Palestinians in those isolated Arab villages who were being confronted and harrassed have now evacuated as a result of Jewish raids and after being told by them "Go to Jordan"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60SY9APunS4

Terrorism does not justify terrorism. War crimes do not justify war crimes.
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If war crimes are charged at the Hague, then start a new thread about it.
Until then, what I'm seeing is a regular war being fought, and Gazans are now widely realizing they've been ****** by HAMAS.

The crowds are beginning to form at the Egyptian border, and when they decide to break through and create a passage into N.Sinai, then what? Are the Egyptians prepared to machine-gun them in order to stop 'em?

23 January 2008 -- The United Nations estimates that as many as half the 1.5 million population of the Gaza Strip crossed the broken border into Egypt seeking food and supplies.
 
Leumas, are you upset at something? What is it? Show me where it hurts using this dolly.
 
webfusion said:
Leumas, are you upset at something?
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Yes... very.


webfusion said:
What is it?
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Watching the descendants of victims of racism and genocide and persecution... doing the same thing EXACTLY as was done to their ancestors (or even themselves in some cases) to helpless victims of their Settler Colonialism.


webfusion said:
Show me where it hurts using this dolly.
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Which doll? Can you find it in these ruins? Or maybe in this crater
 
Leumas, You need to relax, take a chill pill, this war is not going to conclude like previous Operations to temporarily halt rocket fire and then go along with ceasefire providing a period of 'calm'

What you term a 'genocide' is actually not.
9,000 Palestinians are dead, not 900,000.
I noted this graphic, it was very informational.
https://s.libertaddigital.com/2018/04/01/1200/627/ld/terroristas-gaza31032018.jpg
The euphemism of their demise is 'neutralized'

The people of Gaza have an opportunity to get their **** together, hopefully they take it and (physically & politically) reject the jihadists among them from now on.

Oh by the way, at the bottom of those craters in Jabaliyya are two very bad dudes.
Good riddance.
 
webfusion said:
Leumas, You need to relax, take a chill pill, this war is not going to conclude like previous Operations to temporarily halt rocket fire and then go along with ceasefire providing a period of 'calm'

What you term a 'genocide' is actually not.
9,000 Palestinians are dead, not 900,000.
I noted this graphic, it was very informational.
https://s.libertaddigital.com/2018/04/01/1200/627/ld/terroristas-gaza31032018.jpg
The euphemism of their demise is 'neutralized'

The people of Gaza have an opportunity to get their **** together, hopefully they take it and (physically & politically) reject the jihadists among them from now on.

Oh by the way, at the bottom of those craters in Jabaliyya are two very bad dudes.
Good riddance.
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Why doesn't Israel want to "neutralize" the Hamas leadership currently luxuriating in a 7-stars hotel in Qatar?
 
Leumas said:
Why doesn't Israel want to "neutralize" the Hamas leadership currently luxuriating in a 7-stars hotel in Qatar?
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Who said we don't want to?

On the contrary, I believe that those Hamas guys are in our crosshairs, also.
Maybe not with a 1000-pound bomb, but something more subtle.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/men...are-the-key-targets-on-israels-hamas-hit-list

Qatar already knows that providing Hamas leaders sanctuary might very well become a huge problem politically, and jeopardize the close relationship the Emir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani has with the USA.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...g-hamas-presence-us-official-says-2023-10-27/
 
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webfusion said:
Who said we don't want to?

On the contrary, I believe that those Hamas guys are in our crosshairs, also.
Maybe not with a 1000-pound bomb,
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Why not? Is it OK to genocide Palestinians but not Qataris who are harboring the terrorists in 7-stars hotels and financing them with billions?
 
Leumas said:
Why not? Is it OK to genocide Palestinians but not Qataris who are harboring the terrorists in 7-stars hotels and financing them with billions?
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It is absolutely OK to strike directly at the HAMAS operations, regardless of them using civilian 'shields' and that message is being conveyed quite emphatically to the residents of Gaza.


The latest information shows that Qatar supports Hamas POLITICAL (civil society) branch, and directs money to humanitarian purposes in Gaza. There are supervisory mechanisms regarding transfers of funds, and Qatar coordinates with Israel on that matter.
https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/lretnzx9l

It ends with 5 stars. All the hotels such as Emirates Palace in Abu Dhabi and Burj Al Arab in Dubai that claim to be 7 star are actually 5 star hotels as per standard ratings.
What specific hotel in Qatar are you referring to?
 
Leumas said:
The Nazis warned all the Jews of Europe to "evacuate"
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Was there any specific military imperative or combat purpose in the German military urging/forcing Jews to leave their homes? Were the NAZIS attempting to save Jewish lives by asking them to move away from areas that would be soon engulfed by military maneuvers and their lives would be in danger if they remained within their homes as the German Army operated in their sector?

Israel has no animosity towards Gazans. We'll live with them as national neighbors, we'll provide opportunities for work, study, tourism, etc. in our country, just as we've done in the past.

Gaza no longer has the luxury of being a HAMAS-controlled salient in Palestine.
Time to come up with other alternatives to HAMAS, and they might want to start with figuring that way forward, sooner rather than later.
 
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