Luton Airport Car Park Fire

[Agatha]

Several off-topic posts have been removed. This thread is not the place to discuss matters pertaining to the sinking of MS Estonia.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha

 

[JayUtah]

FOI exemptions...

But how do you know if something will be denied for reasons of exemption unless you make the request and it's rejected for that reason?

Whilst the Fire Brigade is responsible for producing the Fire Report in this type of major incident, it works closely with the police because there may be criminal issues arising from it. The idea that one could simply send in a request for FOI for the make and model of the car is absurd given the report won't be ready for at least four months or more.

You suggested the make and model of the car are being withheld for nefarious purposes. Now you're suggesting that information is withheld for the legitimate reason that it may be part of criminal investigation.

Which is it? Is it proper or improper that the information you say is crucial hasn't been reported in the media? Is the reason you haven't done an FOI request to obtain because you fear it will be rejected or that you never considered that information actually critical to the credibility of the reporting?

 

[JayUtah]

No, sorry. The absolute insistence by zooterkin that it was a diesel car that started the fire and this is confirmed absolutely means magical thinking on his part...

No, it was reported as such by relevant competent authority. It may turn out to be incorrect upon further investigation, but it's not "magical thinking."

The issue you're being asked to account for is not the source of ignition. It's your insinuation that only one type of fuel participates in a conflagration.

If the images uploaded to social media are authentic then it is clear that the source of the fire is from below the vehicle exactly where a lithium-ion battery would be and shooting out flames as is consistent with such a fire.

You are not competent to draw that conclusion.

 

[Vixen]

Whose word would you take if not the police and the fire service who attended the fire?

Fire Chief Andrew Hopkinson's own words. Not an anonymous uploader of 'plain English'.

 

[JayUtah]

Fire Chief Andrew Hopkinson's own words. Not an anonymous uploader of 'plain English'.

So you're going to physically sit in a room with this person and listen to him speak? Or would you have to trust a transcript or video of his statements uploaded by some person you don't know to a place where you can access it?

 

[theprestige]

Fire Chief Andrew Hopkinson's own words. Not an anonymous uploader of 'plain English'.

I for one am totally okay if it turns out he feels he's already said all he needs to say, you never get the conclusive evidence you're looking for, and you continue to doubt the official story as a result.

 

[Andy_Ross]

It's always the evidence not available that is needed

 

[zooterkin]

Fire Chief Andrew Hopkinson's own words. Not an anonymous uploader of 'plain English'.

You mean Chief Fire Officer Andrew Hopkinson?

And how did you decide that he is the one and only person authorised to speak on behalf of the Bedfordshire Fire and Rescue Service? Do you think they publish official statements on their own website without checking the facts? Do you think he wouldn't have spoken out if they had made an error?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Vixen, what do you think Magical Thinking is?

 

[W.D.Clinger]

This thread is dumb, and everyone who has engaged with it is being dumb.

....snip....

I hope it is clear that I'm not going after any particular poster, rather that I'm saying we're all being a bit dumb.

My non-dumb time is extremely limited, hence a rare and precious resource that should not be squandered in threads such as this.

My dumb time is plentiful, seeking outlets such as this.

That said, anyone who engages Vixen is stupid to the extent that they expect a serious discussion.

I can't remember why I wanted to raise this point.

It is not unreasonable to wonder why it is so hard to understand that "it has been determined that the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car."

In my opinion, this thread has provided abundant insight into the talent and effort it takes to fail to understand that "it has been determined that the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car."

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It is not unreasonable to wonder why it is so hard to understand that "it has been determined that the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car."

Ah, but you have to play the game by the rules:

If you hear "the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car" then you do nothing. If you hear "Chief Fire Officer says the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car", then you believe it.

 

[GlennB]

Ah, but you have to play the game by the rules:

If you hear "the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car" then you do nothing. If you hear "Chief Fire Officer says the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car", then you believe it.

Yeah, and "Fire service says diesel" is also no good, because it might have been Jenny from accounts.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Yeah, and "Fire service says diesel" is also no good, because it might have been Jenny from accounts.

Okay, so the one thing we can learn from this thread is "Don't trust anything an accountant says about the Luton fire". I can get with that.

 

[GlennB]

Okay, so the one thing we can learn from this thread is "Don't trust anything an accountant says about the Luton fire". I can get with that.

 

[Foster Zygote]

It wasn't just a Diesel Fuel fire, the tires and Plastic provided the energy to do that.

Not only that, but the fire rapidly spread to many more vehicles. I'm not sure of the ratio of diesel to gasoline vehicles in the UK (When I was in France years ago there were a lot more diesel cars than in the US, because of the relative cheapness of diesel at the time) but you can bet that a lot of those were gasoline powered. And once you get to a certain point in the conflagration, the higher ignition temperature of diesel isn't going to make a damned bit of difference. All those vehicles crowded together in a well ventilated space is going to lead to a massive fire.

I wonder if Vixen has been proceeding under the misapprehension that all the structural damage to the parking garage was caused by the one vehicle alone. The way she's been arguing, I'm not sure she understands that the initial vehicle fire was just the ignition point for the greater fire. She also doesn't seem to understand that while diesel may have a higher ignition temperature, it contains about 18% more energy by volume. She seems to have seized on the fact that diesel doesn't ignite quite as easily as gasoline, and inferred that it is much less energetic when it burns, which is simply not the case.

 

[JayUtah]

I'm not sure of the ratio of diesel to gasoline vehicles in the UK...

When I lived in Italy, the company I worked for had four automobiles in the fleet, three of which were diesel. My personal car was a diesel as well.

And once you get to a certain point in the conflagration, the higher ignition temperature of diesel isn't going to make a damned bit of difference.

Once you get to a certain point in the conflagration, the mere presence of Class B combustibles becomes irrelevant. Those serve mostly to spread the fire quickly, not to contribute a majority to the overall combustible load.

I wonder if Vixen has been proceeding under the misapprehension that all the structural damage to the parking garage was caused by the one vehicle alone.

Are you asking me to put an upper bound on Vixen's ability to misunderstand the situation?

 

[GlennB]

When I lived in Italy, the company I worked for had four automobiles in the fleet, three of which were diesel. My personal car was a diesel as well.



Once you get to a certain point in the conflagration, the mere presence of Class B combustibles becomes irrelevant. Those serve mostly to spread the fire quickly, not to contribute a majority to the overall combustible load.



Are you asking me to put an upper bound on Vixen's ability to misunderstand deliberately misrepresent the situation?

ftfy

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Chipotle?

"...and this, then, is the final gift of Chipotle: Where once I asked myself what is the price of carnitas, now I only ask:


What is the cost of fries?"

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Yeah, and "Fire service says diesel" is also no good, because it might have been Jenny from accounts.

Don't be fooled by the fuels I recount
I'm still, I'm still Jenny from accounts

 

[Mojo]

Ah, but you have to play the game by the rules:

If you hear "the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car" then you do nothing. If you hear "Chief Fire Officer says the vehicle that first caught fire was a diesel car", then you believe it.

No, it's "Fire Chief says..."