Luton Airport Car Park Fire

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GlennB said:
Arghhhh! I clicked that - it was a homeopathy forum where the top article was a homeopath spewing Vixenesque ChatGPT levels of total bilge about potentisation. I got out quickly but my brain is contaminated.

DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK
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Just breathe deeply and think of Will Jordan's solo try...And repeat...You'll feel much better.
 
Agatha said:
Er, no. That's not what they do. It's clear from their website that they don't regurgitate press releases but that they independently fact check.

It's also clear to anyone with English as a first language from the words "confirmed to fact check" and the word "previously" (referring to the press release) that they did not use the press release.
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I doubt the Regional Fire Chief would give a self-defined unregulated small outfit an 'off the record' statement different from the one given Reuters, AP and the BBC.

But it gives them plausible deniability should it turn out to be a q lithium battery fire after all. They can just refer people back to the official press statement. (See? We said, 'at this stage'.)


Scene: Local Pub

Fire Chief Andrew Hopkinson (for it is he): Tell you what, between you and me...

GUY IN PUB: Go on, so what really happened?

Fire Chief: <sups pint> Well you see, the JRL derv was actually an HEV, I wasn't allowed to say that bit. Well, flippin' battery fell out didn't it causing a thermal runaway to the floor. Bloody ceiling gave way and whoosh whole place up in smoke!

GUY: I'll let Full Fact know asap that I got it confirmed straight from the horse's mouth!

Fire Chief: Don't let BBC or Reuters know, though.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
A Lithium battery fire cannot melt Conctete, unless you add Thermite to it, it looks like the floor above collapsed do to a Carbon based fire causing the steel supports of the concrete to fail.
Simular to other well known collapses like the world trade center, Madrid Tower, plasco building in Iran.
Concrete does spauld though at below 1000c some some Spaulding degradation of concrete is known to occur in Hydrocarbon based fires.
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OK, so you have confirmed that diesel can burn as much 600°C, which is not enough to burn through concrete but can cause spalling to the concrete layers.

How hot can a q lithium car battery burn and is this temperature, which I understand is over 1,000°C, is hot enough to burn through concrete?

So, whilst the flashpoint of diesel is 52°C (we are not talking about the much higher ignition point), and even at that temperature, it would still need something to make it burst into flame, right? So this could only realistically happen whilst the engine is still running, as a parked derv is unlikely to combust of its own accord. The tail lights are on in the video so it is feasible it is a diesel fire caused by faulty electric wiring, right? But it wouldn't get so hot as to do anything more that cause spalling to the concrete, and the fire brigade could put it out in ten minutes, right? There are no cars near it, so there is nothing to leap from it to a nearby EV as it has yet to park, albeit in a narrow space.

But if it were a q-lithium fire which doesn't need an external agent to catch fire, just a faulty cell within the battery, or a bump, then that would burn at >1,000°C and the thermal runaway would quickly spread all around, including burning through the floor or the ceiling.

Does that sound more likely, in your opinion, no?
 
Vixen said:
There wasn't any black smoke. Just a sudden orange and red flash from beneath the car. Within ten minutes the whole place was on fire.
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Are you arguing a lack of black smoke is indicative of a concrete floor being burned through?
 
Vixen said:
I doubt the Regional Fire Chief would give a self-defined unregulated small outfit an 'off the record' statement different from the one given Reuters, AP and the BBC.

But it gives them plausible deniability should it turn out to be a q lithium battery fire after all. They can just refer people back to the official press statement. (See? We said, 'at this stage'.)


Scene: Local Pub

Fire Chief Andrew Hopkinson (for it is he): Tell you what, between you and me...

GUY IN PUB: Go on, so what really happened?

Fire Chief: <sups pint> Well you see, the JRL derv was actually an HEV, I wasn't allowed to say that bit. Well, flippin' battery fell out didn't it causing a thermal runaway to the floor. Bloody ceiling gave way and whoosh whole place up in smoke!

GUY: I'll let Full Fact know asap that I got it confirmed straight from the horse's mouth!

Fire Chief: Don't let BBC or Reuters know, though.
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What a fervid imagination you have. Now, back to the point, the car where the fire started was a diesel. What is there left to discuss?
 
Vixen said:
...So this could only realistically happen whilst the engine is still running, as a parked derv is unlikely to combust of its own accord. The tail lights are on in the video so it is feasible it is a diesel fire caused by faulty electric wiring, right?
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The video of the incident shows the car is not in a parking space, so I'm going to venture it was driving and not parked.

But it wouldn't get so hot as to do anything more that cause spalling to the concrete, and the fire brigade could put it out in ten minutes, right? There are no cars near it, so there is nothing to leap from it to a nearby EV as it has yet to park, albeit in a narrow space.
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Perhaps in an open, roofless car park the fire would be less likely to have spread to the other nearby cars but in that confined space I'm not surprised at all. And there's no particular reason to imagine any of the nearby cars were EVs or that EV battery fires were necessary to cause the damage seen.
 
Vixen said:
Compare the flare to the one you see here:




Under test conditions, thermal runaway in cylindrical lithium ion battery cells causes an ignition fire.
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So what? You're an expert on combustion now?

The. Car. Has. Been. Confirmed. As. A. Diesel.
 
Vixen said:
What does this look like to you?
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It looks like a car fire. But what does it tell you about the concrete floor? I can't follow whatever point you are trying to make about that. In fact I rather suspect you can't either which is why you're being so vague in the hope everyone will forget the concrete floor was where you began this digression.
 
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