Luton Airport Car Park Fire

[zooterkin]

Claims Full Fact, ignoring Mr. Hopkinson's conditional statement.

Just yesterday you claimed we now have to await the cause but now you are reverting back to your dogmatic stance and claiming back up from Full Fact excluding a lithium-type fire.

Lying again, I see. Do you think we can't read what has been posted here, by you and others?

I know I'm wasting my time, but Mr Hopkinson's very, very, slightly conditional statement preceeded the definitive confirmation from the fire service.

And, as has been pointed out to you multiple times, the issue you introduced, in the OP of this thread, was whether the car where the fire started was an EV or hybrid, or an ICE car, not the specific cause of the fire.

 

[Darat]

Which came first vixen?

Hey this idea of time being linear, that some things happen before other things is disputed by scientists so it may be that the conditional statement happened after the non-conditional statement so who can tell - see here's a link to a report about time not being as we think it is - one I quickly found by using some silly search terms and of course have not read through - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191203-what-we-get-wrong-about-time

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, you linear time sheeples!

 

[MarkCorrigan]

If Joe Jones, high up in organisation A hedges his bets on Monday, then another member of organisation A says that it was definitively X on Wednesday, we can be confident it was X.

Unless you're Vixen apparently.

 

[Vixen]

A belief in authoritarianism is fine for those who have no faith in their own critical abilities. I totally get that.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The codswallop bit is claiming that this is the final word in the matter because Full Fact says so....three days after the fire. Full Fact in this case was hoist by its own petard.

Wrong. "The local fire brigade, Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service, confirmed to Full Fact that the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel, not a hybrid."

This confirmation came days after the chief fire officer's 'pending confirmation' statement, which conspiracy theorists like you used to continue to claim the car might have been a hybrid. Full Fact is a fact-checking group. Not a "reading press releases" group. They sound the confirmation required to answer the question of whether the car was actually a hybrid. It was not a hybrid.

Your fantasy they were somehow 'hoist by their own petard' franky baffles me. You appear to be the only one who doggedly declines to understand what they wrote.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

We have been told that the car is not an EV ('it is believed') but a derv.

That doesn't rule out a diesel hybrid.

So if the car turns out to have been a hybrid or a full EV, then that is the Beds Fire Chief lying by omission. He has obviously been told what he can and cannot say.

We all know this subsequent confirmation rules out a hybrid:

"The local fire brigade, Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service, confirmed to Full Fact that the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel, not a hybrid."

So why don't you? You look ridiculous.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Nonsense. If the driver drove his vehicle into the car park whilst knowing it to be on fire then that is grossly irresponsible, likewise if he had some kind of electrical modifications that he could reasonably realised to have been the likely cause then why would he or she be entitled to anonymity. It is a miracle that no-one was killed. Breathing in the fumes of a lithium type fire is likewise extremely dangerous. Four firefighters had to be hospitalised with smoke inhalation plus an airport worker.

These guys are trained to put out heavy duty airport fires, such as on aircraft when landing, so you can be sure there is good reason they kept well away from the building once the smoke inhalation overcame them.

It is in the public interest to know the make and model of the car. We don't need to know the driver's identity but the public have a right to know of the circumstances that potentially put lives at risk.

What utter bilge.
Why would they go in to a burning building for no reason?

Crash teams are not the same as the fire service. But an aircraft fire is fought from outside, fire teams do not go in.

I only know of one fire team that would be inside fighting a fire and that is on a ship where the nature of a fire means it can only be fought from inside.
Even then the teams would evacuate after a certain point if it wasn't contained.

I did the RN firefighting school like every other sailor going afloat.Teo weeks of intensive training in actual burning passageways and compartments. I know something about it.

 

[Vixen]

Wrong. "The local fire brigade, Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service, confirmed to Full Fact that the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel, not a hybrid."

This confirmation came days after the chief fire officer's 'pending confirmation' statement, which conspiracy theorists like you used to continue to claim the car might have been a hybrid. Full Fact is a fact-checking group. Not a "reading press releases" group. They sound the confirmation required to answer the question of whether the car was actually a hybrid. It was not a hybrid.

Your fantasy they were somehow 'hoist by their own petard' franky baffles me. You appear to be the only one who doggedly declines to understand what they wrote.

You and Full Fact don't realise that you are merely paraphrasing what Mr. Hopkinson said in his press release. This translated into the admin staff who précis statements for Twitter/X into condensing the Fire Chief's words into "the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel, not a hybrid", based on a fear that a bunch of Brexiteer anti-ULEZ gammons will stir up a fear campaign against EV's and hybrids for their own political ends. Full Fact, you and others cannot see that Full Fact themselves have fallen into the trap of taking a position, which you cannot possibly know is the correct one as of this stage.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

How can they know on day one, when the CCTV cameras likely melted very quickly and they'd have to await forensic experts to pinpoint the exact cause.

Hold that thought and let's see whether a lithium battery is involved or not when confirmation comes through.

Who is 'they' in this nonsense? Do you imagine the video which circulated on social media was recovered from melted CCTV cameras? Do you imagine CCTV pictures are stored inside the cameras until somebody collects them?

Days after their 'pending confirmation' press release, the fire brigade confirmed it wasn't a hybrid. You seem now to be clinging to the hope that the fire brigade are lying, as part of a giant conspiracy to encourage people to buy fire hazard cars. Is that the sort of thing you think fire brigades do?

 

[Vixen]

What utter bilge.
Why would they go in to a burning building for no reason?

Crash teams are not the same as the fire service. But an aircraft fire is fought from outside, fire teams do not go in.

I only know of one fire team that would be inside fighting a fire and that is on a ship where the nature of a fire means it can only be fought from inside.
Even then the teams would evacuate after a certain point if it wasn't contained.

I did the RN firefighting school like every other sailor going afloat.Teo weeks of intensive training in actual burning passageways and compartments. I know something about it.

...And why do ships run on diesel fuel and not petrol...? Anything to do with its low propensity to burst into flame?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If the driver drove his vehicle into the car park whilst knowing it to be on fire ...

It wouldn't magically turn his diesel into a diesel hybrid. But do please let us know if you ever discover evidence this irrelevant thing happened.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It is in the public interest to know the make and model of the car.

2014 Range Rover Sport 3.0 diesel. One of several models subject to a recall 6 months ago to address a problem which might cause a fire.

Pending confirmation.

You're welcome.

 

[Vixen]

It wouldn't magically turn his diesel into a diesel hybrid. But do please let us know if you ever discover evidence this irrelevant thing happened.

To convert a derv into a hybrid you have to get approval and reregister with DVLA. If, as is claimed by people who claim to have deciphered the vehicle's registration plate, it is a Range Rover Sport 2014, which as of that date didn't have a hybrid line then it should be a derv only, as it hasn't been re-registered since. But you don't know what shenanigans people get up to. The driver was only just entering the car park level judging by its position on the CCTV and someone claims there is a fire extinguisher on the floor suggesting someone (perhaps the same person?) was already trying to put out a fire, so we can't even be sure that the Range Rover Sport (if it is that) was even the origin.

 

[Vixen]

2014 Range Rover Sport 3.0 diesel. One of several models subject to a recall 6 months ago to address a problem which might cause a fire.

Pending confirmation.

You're welcome.

There you go. Now you know why the model and make is not being given out. Legal reasons.

 

[Agatha]

Full Fact, you and others cannot see that Full Fact themselves have fallen into the trap of taking a position, which you cannot possibly know is the correct one as of this stage.

What do the words "[Beds Fire and Rescue Service] confirmed to Full Fact that the initial vehicle involved in the fire was a diesel, not a hybrid" convey to you?

Do you think it means that Full Fact merely relied on a previous statement from Mr Hopkinson, or do you think it means that Full Fact sought (and received) separate confirmation from Beds Fire & Rescue?

 

[ferd burfle]

Full Fact, you and others cannot see that Full Fact themselves have fallen into the trap of taking a position, which you cannot possibly know is the correct one as of this stage.

“Did the dinosaurs build Stonehenge? We don’t know. We just don’t know.”

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Claims Full Fact, ignoring Mr. Hopkinson's conditional statement.

Wrong again.

The reason Full Fact fact-checked this is precisely because Hopkinson's statement was conditional, allowing conspiracy nutters to gallop off in all directions at once.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You and Full Fact don't realise that you are merely paraphrasing what Mr. Hopkinson said in his press release.

No. Wrong yet again.

Full Fact did not paraphrase Hopkinson. They asked the fire brigade, who confirmed to Full Fact the car was not a hybrid.

Your mule-headed obduracy in sticking to your initial reading comprehension failure is not a good look. Nobody else doesn't get this. Nobody is persuaded you are anything but flat out wrong and incapable of admitting it.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

...And why do ships run on diesel fuel and not petrol...? Anything to do with its low propensity to burst into flame?

Because Diesel is easier to refine and cheaper, and ships don't run on low sulfur Road Diesel but on the Lower grade oil.

Secondly it's not q Lithium Metal fire at over 1000C, it's a wind propelled Hydrocarbon Diesel fire not even hot enough to cause the insulation on the tail lights to Melt.

Definitely a Diesel fire obeying the physics of directed oxidation.

Diesel will burn spontaneously in air at temperatures around 600C.

Ad to that the Diesel of that year had a recall because of a fuel return line catching fire, and it pretty easy to tell the Conspiracy theorists are wrong.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If, as is claimed by people who claim to have deciphered the vehicle's registration plate, it is a Range Rover Sport 2014, which as of that date didn't have a hybrid line ...

Maybe your sources aren't as dependable as you would like to imagine.

I just found a couple of 2014 Range Rover Sport Diesel Hybrids for sale on Autotrader. (One owner, under 60k miles, £27,495 if you're interested.)