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Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

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Vixen said:
Even so, surely US Defence Forces must have noted a breach of its airspace. But anyway, given it was Dubya...I am sure they were able to handle it to the best of their ability.
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They were domestic flights hijacked shortly after they took off. There was no "breach of...airspace." You should probably stop guessing stuff. You're really bad at it. So are most people, but some of us have the sense to realize that.

ETA: Ninja'd by GlennB
 
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lobosrul5 said:
The Finn and Swedish landline system was working fine.
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Source?

Are you saying that on a sinking ship with 1,000 people, half of them Swedish citizens, no-one managed to pick up the phone and tell Stockholm. Of course they were desperately trying to communicate but communications were mysteriously blocked.
 
Vixen said:
What? A poster thinks they might have all been informed by telephone, in which case how come Stockholm didn't get the Mayday? Yet Carl Bildt was informed as he was leaving his office party, as his intelligence guys were on the case.
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Because they were not sent it. A news agency picked up a distressed ship off the coast of Finland. they put out a communique, which people in high levels of government monitor, the PM was informed of this. People in high level of government don't always immediately think about things like: lets make sure our coastguard station is informed of this ship sinking over 100 miles away from the sinking.
 
Vixen said:
Source?

Are you saying that on a sinking ship with 1,000 people, half of them Swedish citizens, no-one managed to pick up the phone and tell Stockholm. Of course they were desperately trying to communicate but communications were mysteriously blocked.
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Which of those 1000 people on the Estonia had a working landline connection to Stockholm?
 
Vixen said:
Source?

Are you saying that on a sinking ship with 1,000 people, half of them Swedish citizens, no-one managed to pick up the phone and tell Stockholm. Of course they were desperately trying to communicate but communications were mysteriously blocked.
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No landlines were being blocked. You keep thinking everyone at all levels of government have some perfect situational awareness at all times, and every agency is on the same page as each other. Thats not how the real world works. No one immediately thought to inform the Stockholm coastguard station, likely because they figured someone else already had.
 
Mojo said:
How? You claim that "communications were down".
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According to this Google entry, this is how submarines communicate with the Naval base:

How does the Navy talk to submarines?
Submarine Communication Overview

The U.S. Navy operates two extremely low frequency (ELF) radio transmitters to communicate with its deep diving submarines. The sites at Clam Lake, Wisconsin and Republic, Michigan are operated by the Naval Computer and Telecommunications Area Master Station – Atlantic.
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Submarine communication in the Navy - USAMM
 
lobosrul5 said:
One of many many blips on their radar on a Tuesday morning in a very busy part of US airpsace.
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Or rather, the lack of a blip. The initial indication was the loss of secondary radar as the hijackers switched off the aircraft transponders. This was properly handled as a failure rather than a warning of imminent dnager. It wasn't until one of the hijackers accidentally made a radio transmission that the U.S. defense apparatus responded as per plan to what they justifiably believed was merely a hijacking. This is not a response to any sort of incursion into monitored or restricted airspace.
 
Vixen said:
According to this Google entry, this is how submarines communicate with the Naval base.
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No. That is how a naval base communicates with a submarine. If you knew anything about submarines and ELF comms, you'd know they work only from land out to the submarine. Submarines cannot transmit via ELF. They can only receive.
 
lobosrul5 said:
No landlines were being blocked. You keep thinking everyone at all levels of government have some perfect situational awareness at all times, and every agency is on the same page as each other. Thats not how the real world works. No one immediately thought to inform the Stockholm coastguard station, likely because they figured someone else already had.
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This is what I am saying. Carl Bildt knew early on because he had the intelligence connections. Nothing to do with TT News or 'the modern telephone'. Two independent witnesses saw a military truck load the Estonia, one said he arrived late and all the roads were blocked by military to make way for this truck. Another witness watched it loading from watching over an upper deck. So, if Sweden did have a military load of smuggled ex-Soviet materiel - and the Rikstag admitted to two such deliveries in September 1994 - then it the journey certainly will have been monitored by the Defence Forces guys. If it was a collision with a Swedish submarine, one can understand Svensson and Bildt's embarrassment and desire to cover it up.
 
JayUtah said:
No. That is how a naval base communicates with a submarine. If you knew anything about submarines and ELF comms, you'd know they work only from land out to the submarine. Submarines cannot transmit via ELF. They can only receive.
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It would have to be one very loooooong submarine.
 
Vixen said:
This is what I am saying. Carl Bildt knew early on because he had the intelligence connections. Nothing to do with TT News or 'the modern telephone'. Two independent witnesses saw a military truck load the Estonia, one said he arrived late and all the roads were blocked by military to make way for this truck. Another witness watched it loading from watching over an upper deck. So, if Sweden did have a military load of smuggled ex-Soviet materiel - and the Rikstag admitted to two such deliveries in September 1994 - then it the journey certainly will have been monitored by the Defence Forces guys. If it was a collision with a Swedish submarine, one can understand Svensson and Bildt's embarrassment and desire to cover it up.
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But we know there was no Swedish submarine there, because none of them were damaged. Unless you can identify one you believe it to be?
 
Vixen said:
You wanted to know how a submarine communicates with its base, so I pointed you in the direction that could inform you of how it works.
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Which you mangled and got completely wrong. As Jay has pointed out, ELF only goes one way.
 
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