Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
Total Hypothetical. What if Trump died in the next few months.
- Thread starter acbytesla
- Start date
Not all of them. His most dedicated followers won't show up till three days later for his expected resurrection
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
- Joined
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Disagree.
The whole point of the Indictments is to show that even Presidents will be held accountable, even criminally.
If he dies too soon, that would still remain unestablished
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
Of course. Anybody who kills DJT didn't get the idea from you (wink wink).
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
Seriously, I DO NOT want Trump to die any time soon.
It's no good at all hanging his rotting corpse from the battlements, and piking his head over the castle gate, before he is convicted.
I would prefer that he lived many a long year in fair health, thereby to enjoy his decades of extended incarceration in maximum security. He can die in jail of whatever takes him eventually.
Then we can do the piking thing.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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No, I really don't. The last thing i want is to make a martyr out of Trump. Too many MAGA morons treat him like Jesus already.
Trust me I absolutely wish he was gone from this earth. He's despicable and horrible. He has done more to destroy this country than anyone has done since the Civil War. And if somehow that turd wins election in 2024 we can kiss the democracy goodbye.
But violence in politics is also the opposite of democracy. What's best is there are public televised trials exposing all this corruption. The MAGA party gets crushed in the next election. It reforms itself as a more sane, less corrupt opposition party.
Is there anything in the USA constitution that says you have to be living to stand for President?
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
Is there anything in the USA constitution that says you have to be living to stand for President?
I for one welcome our dead AI Presidents.
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
I think you may have meant to write "40 percent."
DevilsAdvocate
Philosopher
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Is there anything in the USA constitution that says you have to be living to stand for President?
Article II, Section 1, Clause 6
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Agreed. Let's not get all whatabout-if and pretend that we're calling for violence and lawlessness when we're not. I wouldn't mourn him if he died, and if I were in the vicinity I might join the waiting line to piss on his grave, but to dislike him is exactly not to be like him. Reprisal and rebellion and revenge are his specialty, not mine, and unlike Trump and his minions I won't vitiate that with mealy-mouthed equivocations to make it clear that I mean just the opposite. I would not support, praise, or even secretly thank an assassin.
I hope in a real sense that Trump is convicted of his crimes, not because I also greatly disagree with his opinions, but because he is a criminal, and that he does not get away with it again, and that his followers are treated to the sight of their leader impotently whining and spending a long time in disgrace, late as it is in arriving.
Trump and those of his ilk could make an enormous difference in the political climate, and in the rise of partisan violence and murder, if they could say, without the winks and nudges and but-filled dilutions, that such things are wrong and counter to their principles. When called to do so they won't. They can't even bring themselves to lie, for fear it would taken as truth, and divert their followers from the stochastic violence they seek.
So no, wishing an enemy dead and gone is not to wish him murdered, though like Timon of Athens I would he were clean enough to spit upon.
I hope in a real sense that Trump is convicted of his crimes, not because I also greatly disagree with his opinions, but because he is a criminal, and that he does not get away with it again, and that his followers are treated to the sight of their leader impotently whining and spending a long time in disgrace, late as it is in arriving.
Trump and those of his ilk could make an enormous difference in the political climate, and in the rise of partisan violence and murder, if they could say, without the winks and nudges and but-filled dilutions, that such things are wrong and counter to their principles. When called to do so they won't. They can't even bring themselves to lie, for fear it would taken as truth, and divert their followers from the stochastic violence they seek.
So no, wishing an enemy dead and gone is not to wish him murdered, though like Timon of Athens I would he were clean enough to spit upon.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
Criminal cases are automatically extinguished by the death of the defendant.
Some civil causes of action are extinguished by the death of either party. The death of the plaintiff in a defamation suit, for example, extinguishes the cause of action—you cannot defame the dead. For those that are not immediately extinguished, a representative of the decedent's estate must file a motion with the court for substitution and the court decides whether sufficient interest (generally standing along the lines of Article III) remains to allow the action to proceed with a substitute party. Failing any such motion, the cause of action is usually then dismissible upon a motion from the surviving party.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
I think he literally doesn't care what these people think and believe. Their only value to him, and the only attributes he regards among them, is that they adore him, vote for him, and send him their money. He really is in it literally only for himself and doesn't care in the least what happens to them, the country, or anything else. He'll say anything to convince them to worship him.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
The inevitability of death is absolute, and hence morally neutral in my mind. Consequently I see no moral obligation to laud the dead simply because they died. We are not obliged to celebrate someone's life and deeds simply because they have come to an end.
Donald Trump is a despicable human being. The world is best rid of him.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Of course common sense would suggest that this clause demands that the president be a human being who is alive, since one has to be able to utter the oath of office, but though the Constitution, read strictly, would appear to forbid the installation of a candidate who is not alive and not humanly capable of taking the oath of office, a pettifogging originalist might determine that it does not explicitly forbid the election of a dead dog.
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But if he died before being elected that clause wouldn't come into play as it talks about a President's death. I think you will find that the constitution is quiet in this regard therefore we must assume that the founding fathers - praised be their names - did not want to exclude a corpse for running for President. And I think most rational folk would agree Trump's corpse being President would be far more competent than a living Trump being President.
(It was of course only a silliness.)
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
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Is there anything in the USA constitution that says you have to be living to stand for President?
No. But I do think Biology says you have to be living to stand.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
In Trump's case it would just be A.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
The rest of the passages in the Constitution that deal with the death or incapacitation of the President strongly suggest that the President must not only be living, but must also meet certain other qualities of ongoing live-human function in order to be considered the President in effect.
For example, as soon as the vote of the Electoral College is certified by Congress on Jan. 6, the winning candidate becomes President-Elect, which has status under the Constitution. The Constitution provides, for example, that when a President-Elect dies before taking office, certain steps then ensue. Ordinarily the President-Elect becomes President automatically at noon on Jan. 20, and the provisions governing the death of the President-Elect all but guarantee that the President-Elect must be alive and reasonably functional at that moment in order for the conference of office to have effect; the dead candidate would have been replaced by then under those provisions. The death of the President-Elect extinguishes his claim on the Presidency and indirectly establishes ongoing life as a requirement for the office.
In any case, the Constitution provides that the President's first official act upon becoming President must be to take the Oath of Office and that no other duties may be performed prior. If the President cannot take the oath because of a notable lack of breathing, then the Vice-President automatically becomes President and assumes the office, takes the oath, and proceeds from there.
Now if If the presumptive winner of the electoral vote dies before the Electoral College votes are cast, or between the vote of the Electoral College and the certification of the vote by Congress, then a frenzy of state procedures come into play resulting, in most cases, in a substitute candidate (often the presumptive winner for Vice President). Similarly if a candidate for President dies before the popular vote, then another set of state-specific laws take effect, most of them governed by the Safe Harbor clause.
In my state, only the state-recognized political parties may field candidates for President (-ial electors). Hence if Trump were on the ballot but died before the popular election, before the electors vote, or before the certification of the electoral vote in Congress, the state GOP would field a new candidate according to the party by-laws filed with the state when the party was recognized. They would not be required to run the dead candidate.
For example, as soon as the vote of the Electoral College is certified by Congress on Jan. 6, the winning candidate becomes President-Elect, which has status under the Constitution. The Constitution provides, for example, that when a President-Elect dies before taking office, certain steps then ensue. Ordinarily the President-Elect becomes President automatically at noon on Jan. 20, and the provisions governing the death of the President-Elect all but guarantee that the President-Elect must be alive and reasonably functional at that moment in order for the conference of office to have effect; the dead candidate would have been replaced by then under those provisions. The death of the President-Elect extinguishes his claim on the Presidency and indirectly establishes ongoing life as a requirement for the office.
In any case, the Constitution provides that the President's first official act upon becoming President must be to take the Oath of Office and that no other duties may be performed prior. If the President cannot take the oath because of a notable lack of breathing, then the Vice-President automatically becomes President and assumes the office, takes the oath, and proceeds from there.
Now if If the presumptive winner of the electoral vote dies before the Electoral College votes are cast, or between the vote of the Electoral College and the certification of the vote by Congress, then a frenzy of state procedures come into play resulting, in most cases, in a substitute candidate (often the presumptive winner for Vice President). Similarly if a candidate for President dies before the popular vote, then another set of state-specific laws take effect, most of them governed by the Safe Harbor clause.
In my state, only the state-recognized political parties may field candidates for President (-ial electors). Hence if Trump were on the ballot but died before the popular election, before the electors vote, or before the certification of the electoral vote in Congress, the state GOP would field a new candidate according to the party by-laws filed with the state when the party was recognized. They would not be required to run the dead candidate.
Deregulated beer in the US, his greatest accomplishment.
Not really a nuclear an engineer though.
If Trump dies anytime
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