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Cont: Transwomen are not women part XII (also merged)

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Hercules56 said:
Agreed. If you are a straight guy or lesbian who on principle will not date a transgender woman, you are basically saying you do not believe them to be true women.

Its a cruel world.
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Why? Sex is one area where what is in someone's underwear is relevant. If someone doesn't have the genital configuration you want in a sexual partner it doesn't matter whether they are male or female they aren't going to do it for you.
 
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Thermal said:
While I get your point, the question of whether or not a trans woman is considered a "full-fledged" woman is fair, I think.



If you consider a trans woman to be a woman, right up to the point where what being a man or woman is biologically all about, it speaks to just how "real" we mean when we say "real".



If you really believe a trans woman is a woman, and you are into women, the specific makeup of their junk shouldn't impact whether you are attracted to them .
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But it does if you are considering them in terms of having sex with them. Many people don't want only non-sexual relationships. Even if they don't start a relationship with sex the idea it will lead to sex is part of having a relationship for them.
 
Matthew Best said:
The definition I see when I google is:
"obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

You missed out the qualifier "obstinate or unreasonable".
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So it seems even a reasonable objection is bigotry if a person is obstinate and refuses to back down from their position.
 
Hercules56 said:
It is not bigotry to refuse to date transwomen.

Full stop
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Formalize that conclusion into logical steps and justify it if it is "full stop" - the only correct conclusion can be "It can be bigotry to refuse to date a trans woman, or it might not be"

Unless you claim mind-reading superpowers.
 
smartcooky said:
Well, that would apply to dating a transwoman as well, because I regard any person with a prick between their legs as a man!
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That seems perfectly reasonable, and I'm sure if you were pressured to change your mind you would most obstinately refuse. So under the quoted definition above that bigotry is :-

"obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group."

You would by "stubbornly refusing to change one's opinion or chosen course of action, despite attempts to persuade one to do so."

be classed as bigoted.

But then again so would I and so would most males, so we've got that going for us.
;)
 
Helen Joyce

Helen Joyce deserves her own thread but I am interested because in this interview she says exactly verbatim what I wish I had said.
LondonJohn calls her a sick bigot on this thread, and I hope he listens to the interview right through to point to times on the interview where she deserves his descriptor.
I am in the strict liability camp where I now conclude everything is wrong, and needs an immediate reverse before one more medication or operation happens.

Here is the you tube interview from 4 months ago. A bonus is that these guys do comedy too, and the intermissions are quite comedic.

https://youtu.be/TTZsfk6Ms6s

(Spoiler alert she does not hold the view that trans women are women)
 
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Helen Joyce most certainly does not "deserve her own thread". Toxic bigots such as she do not deserve any of the oxygen of publicity.

(PS I would illustrate the paucity of your argument about Joyce - "Oh she says some moderate stuff too" - by pointing out that The Yorkshire Ripper was by all accounts a very pleasant family man aside from those occasions when he wasn't out killing women.)
 
LondonJohn said:
Helen Joyce most certainly does not "deserve her own thread". Toxic bigots such as she do not deserve any of the oxygen of publicity.

(PS I would illustrate the paucity of your argument about Joyce - "Oh she says some moderate stuff too" - by pointing out that The Yorkshire Ripper was by all accounts a very pleasant family man aside from those occasions when he wasn't out killing women.)
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Not swallowing the kook-aid peddled by Mermaids and GLAAD does not make one a toxic bigot.

I think this thread would be much better if you didn’t throw around “bigot” “transphobe” and “TERF” which such abandon at those who disagree with you. It looks like classic trolling to me.
 
smartcooky said:
Well, that would apply to dating a transwoman as well, because I regard any person with a prick between their legs as a man!
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What if they have gone through thorough physical and hormonal transition? Is it still acceptable to reject them as not being female?
 
Your (LJ) descriptor was sick bigot, which I would allow you might resile from because she is obviously not sick.
Toxic is a fair way to imagine any view that appears to be irreconcilable with common sense, but her views appear to be steeped in common sense to me and other ex lefties I know well.
 
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LondonJohn said:
Helen Joyce most certainly does not "deserve her own thread". Toxic bigots such as she do not deserve any of the oxygen of publicity.

(PS I would illustrate the paucity of your argument about Joyce - "Oh she says some moderate stuff too" - by pointing out that The Yorkshire Ripper was by all accounts a very pleasant family man aside from those occasions when he wasn't out killing women.)
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That's not the argument he made. He asked you to point out what she that makes her a 'sick bigot'. Which of course, you won't be able to do, without lies and distortions. Like pretending that wanting to minimise the number of people who medically transition for the wrong reasons due to the influence of activists and later regret it and need accommodation to cope in a society that recognises the reality of biological sex = 'wanting to eliminate trans people' or some such nonsense.
 
lionking said:
Not swallowing the kook-aid peddled by Mermaids and GLAAD does not make one a toxic bigot.

I think this thread would be much better if you didn’t throw around “bigot” “transphobe” and “TERF” which such abandon at those who disagree with you. It looks like classic trolling to me.
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It's what people do when they have no argument (as well as trying to make people too frightened to say what they think through fear of punitive consequences).
 
JoeMorgue said:
I think we've hit one of those things where internet and real life are different.

Okay in the real world if someone goes "Wanna have sex?" and you go "No" you don't generally have to follow up with a 50 Slide Power Point Presentation outlining why. People don't have to justify themselves in the moment to anywhere near that degree and, to talk a deep breath of the real air people, someone look me in the eye where and tell me the number of cases of a someone being turned down for sex because they are transgender and that not being 100% completely obvious to everyone involved as the reason and doesn't need to be spelled out is anything but "statistically never."

If you don't want to have sex with someone you just say you don't want to have sex with them. If they demand an answer and don't drop it (how functionally in the real world that would even work aside) and they get an answer they don't like, that's on them.

I'm struggling to imagine a realistic scenario where this is the problem in the sense the OP is presenting it.

Okay. So the narrative is the woke college Tumblr transgender activist are... what? What exactly? Going to force us to have sex with them as if we are all literal genie and they can trap us in a "You say you're sexually attracted to women, I define as a woman, ergo you have to sleep with me" and then we have to go "Damn! I fell right into that one!"
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In the case of these dating apps, it's even less of an issue. Generally the way these things work is that users can't talk to one another unless both have already signaled interest in eachother's profile. If this Giggle app works anything like Tinder or the other mainstream apps, the solution for lesbians who don't want to date transwomen is to never swipe right on trans women, and the trans women will never even know that the rejection even occurred.

The fact that this sorting is happening behind the scenes may well be the objection. I imagine there's more than a few TERFs miffed by missing an opportunity to openly reject trans women with an insult.
 
If there was no surgery or hormone therapy, i would consider dating a transman, as they are physically still women.
 
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