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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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tyr_13 said:
The only way your cited sources could support your argument would be to say that. You are admitting your sources don't support your claim.
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Article i posted suggests my view is extremely common among straight and gay people.

Its also does not have any bearing on whether or not transwomen should be treated as women, in iur society. This is about dating preferences, only.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Someone else is putting this rationale onto all such rejections. You don't know "because they aren't true women" is some sort of general belief of lesbians.

Show me a properly conducted survey or you have nothing here except a multilevel homophobic rant.
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This raises an interesting question to which my answer is maybe.
Is it possible that people generally wish to have sex with an unmodified human body? Hormones, puberty blockers and surgery create a weirdness people may recoil from?
This would remove the concept of bigotry and replace with a craving for authenticity.
 
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Thermal said:
While I get your point, the question of whether or not a trans woman is considered a "full-fledged" woman is fair, I think.

If you consider a trans woman to be a woman, right up to the point where what being a man or woman is biologically all about, it speaks to just how "real" we mean when we say "real".

If you really believe a trans woman is a woman, and you are into women, the specific makeup of their junk shouldn't impact whether you are attracted to them.
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This is a goalpost move. 'I find that person attractive' is not the same as 'I am willing to have sex with that person'.

There are very physically attractive cisgender women I wouldn't have sex with because they're stupid. Or mean. Or both.

If (the general) you are attracted to women, you're going to find at least some trans women attractive. That attraction might leave once you find out the situation with their genitals. There are also cis women where the attraction might leave once you find out the situation with their genitals. Reducing it to 'if you don't have genitals I'd have sex with you're not really a real full true womam woman' doesn't only go for trans women, even if that's the one people have the problem with right now.

Hercules56 said:
Article i posted suggests my view is extremely common among straight and gay people.
Its also does not have any bearing on whether or not transwomen should be treated as women, in iur society. This is about dating preferences, only.
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No it doesn't unless you're employing the reasoning you claim you don't.
 
tyr_13 said:
Again, the connection here seems to be 'if they won't date them, it's because they're not really men/women' but that's not what the question asks. I wouldn't date a cop, but it doesn't follow that I therefore don't think cops are women. I just don't want our handcuffs mixed up.
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What about a former cop? How tenuous does the history need to be to be irrelevant.
 
d4m10n said:
Assuming you intend to remain monogamous, does this imply "that you have no interest in sleeping with any trans women ever," as Reed put it?

As a monogamous person I'm in the same boat here, so I need to know how we can get out from the gloomy penumbra of transphobia.
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I have no interest in sleeping with anyone other than my wife. Even if our circumstance were to ever change, I'd enough baggage to work through for a good long time before considering that aspect of my life.

That being said, I can easily acknowledge who I find attractive and who I do not. I find Jennifer Connelly, for example, to be a very beautiful woman. In my LGBT community band, many years ago, there was a stunning woodwind player that I learned was a trans woman. I thought she was very pretty. Maybe not Jennifer Connelly pretty, but at least movie actress pretty.
 
Samson said:
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This would remove the concept of bigotry and replace with a craving for authenticity.
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Or any other criteria that affects peoples' attraction to someone to date.

I think that is the consensus except a few posts that keep falling back on calling certain lack of attractions evidence of bigotry.
 
Upchurch said:
I have no interest in sleeping with anyone other than my wife.
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Same here, but I'm not sure that Natalie Reed built in a get-out-of-phobia loophole for that. I suppose there must be some good and non-bigoted reasons for saying "as a blanket statement that you have no interest in sleeping with any trans women" such as the fact that you have no interest in sleeping with anyone (of any gender or sex) other than your spouse, and maybe that specific exemption comes up somewhere down in the comments.

Suppose a devout young Catholic man were to say that he only intends ever to bed his wife and that she would have to be female because he believes God commanded them to "be fruitful and multiply" and created the institution of marriage specifically to that end. Aside from being deeply misguided about how marriage came about, is he also being transphobic?

I suppose we can say that none of this matters because the "cotton ceiling" is really about what happens "within feminist and queer women’s spaces" so it makes little difference what married straight dudes are into at all. Alas, wish we had some lesbians to weigh in here.
 
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Okay, I'm catching up on this thread, and I wanted to start by saying - again - this:

The correct terms are "trans man" and "trans woman", not "transman" and "transwoman".

"Trans" and "transgender" are adjectives. They modify the nouns. Transgender people are men and women that are transgender, not some weird separate thing by themselves. It would make as much linguistic sense to refer to a "blackman" or a "tallwoman".

The language we use matters.
 
arthwollipot said:
Okay, I'm catching up on this thread, and I wanted to start by saying - again - this:

The correct terms are "trans man" and "trans woman", not "transman" and "transwoman".

"Trans" and "transgender" are adjectives. They modify the nouns. Transgender people are men and women that are transgender, not some weird separate thing by themselves. It would make as much linguistic sense to refer to a "blackman" or a "tallwoman".

The language we use matters.
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I imagine this's just about the least of their problems.
 
Hercules56 said:
Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?
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Since I believe that you are neither a trans woman nor a lesbian, I'm wondering why you care. What's in it for you?
 
Hercules56 said:
Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?
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I think we're conflating two separate questions here, and I think that the most appropriate answer to both was provided by ChatGPT:

Blank said:
[ChatGPT]...
It is important to distinguish between personal preferences and the denial of someone's gender identity. Refusing to date or be sexually involved with someone based solely on their transgender identity can be seen as discriminatory if it stems from the belief that they are not "real" women or men. This can contribute to the marginalization and stigmatization of transgender individuals.[/ChatGPT]
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(highlight added by me)
 
Hercules56 said:
I have nothing on principle against dating an ugly woman. Even a really ugly woman. But I will not date a transwoman. Sorry.
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What's the difference?

What's the difference between dinner and a movie with a woman who has a penis and dinner and a movie with a women who doesn't?

Unless you're talking about having sex with them, of course, which is the distinction that Darat was panned for earlier.
 
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