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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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If it is bigotry to not see trans-women as actual women, is it an act of bigotry for a straight male to not want to date a trans-woman?
 
TurkeysGhost said:
"We can see a pattern in our hand-selected anecdotes" is the kind of rigorous analysis that is common among those motivated by prejudice. Does Breitbart still run their "Black Crime" news ticker?
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I'm not sure you thought your example through. Statistics show that black crime rates really are higher.
 
Hercules56 said:
If it is bigotry to not see trans-women as actual women, is it an act of bigotry for a straight male to not want to date a trans-woman?
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Oddly (or perhaps not), I've been hearing more complaints that it's an act of bigotry for lesbians to not want to date transwomen.
 
Ziggurat said:
Oddly (or perhaps not), I've been hearing more complaints that it's an act of bigotry for lesbians to not want to date transwomen.
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Interesting.

Lesbians clearly only want to date fellow women.

Their rejection of a transwoman, is seen as an act of bigotry?

Very interesting. Why are those lesbians being soo bigoted?
 
Bigotry for lesbians to reject transwomen?

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...nary-old-animosities-boil-public-view-n958456

Its come to my attention a fascinating phenomenon: conflict between the Lesbian and Transgender communities. Some Lesbians feel the recent focus on transgender issues and rights has diminished their own struggles and push for justice and equality. Another issue is whether or not is indeed an act of BIGOTRY for a Lesbian to reject the sexual advances of a transwoman or not want to date transwomen, out of the view that they are in fact NOT women.

Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?
 
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bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

I guess it will come down to whether you think it's unreasonable or not, because the latter part of that sentence definitely applies.
 
Resentment about where social attention is directed is understandable but misguided.

As to whether it is bigotry to not reciprocate advances from a person you're not attracted to is an absurd premise.

Who or what a person is attracted to (or not) is their own personal journey.

Nobody is owed reciprocation based on any identity claimed.

I think anyone who is targeted by that kind of emotional manipulation is well advised to run fast and far, sounds like a well-practiced sociopath.

TL;DR: none of this is really about lesbians or trans. Just a display of awful behaviors found anywhere.
 
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Matthew Best said:
bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

I guess it will come down to whether you think it's unreasonable or not, because the latter part of that sentence definitely applies.
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I don't think group membership is the membership lesbians object to.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Resentment about where social attention is directed is understandable but misguided.

As to whether it is bigotry to not reciprocate advances from a person you're not attracted to is an absurd premise.

Who or what a person is attracted to (or not) is their own personal journey.

Nobody is owed reciprocation based on any identity claimed.

I think anyone who is targeted by that kind of emotional manipulation is well advised to run fast and far, sounds like a well-practiced sociopath.

TL;DR: none of this is really about lesbians or trans. Just a display of awful behaviors found anywhere.
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What if a Lesbian has a stated and consistent policy that they will simply not entertain any sexual advances or overtures from a transgender woman, as they do not accept transgender women to be actual women? Is that bigotry?
 
Hercules56 said:
Some Lesbians feel the recent focus on transgender issues and rights has diminished their own struggles and push for justice and equality.
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"Some" is an odd word choice, often designating a small proportion of the whole. What other positions do the rest of the lesbians take?


Hercules56 said:
Another issue is whether or not is indeed an act of BIGOTRY for a Lesbian to reject the sexual advances of a transwoman or not want to date transwomen, out of the view that they are in fact NOT women.
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Who is saying this? The same "Some Lesbians"?
 
Upchurch said:
"Some" is an odd word choice, often designating a small proportion of the whole. What other positions do the rest of the lesbians take?



Who is saying this? The same "Some Lesbians"?
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That's not the issue. The issue is, is it an act of bigotry for a lesbian to reject the concept of dating a transwoman because they believe transwoman are not true women?
 
theprestige said:
Nature red in tooth and claw. The strong prey on the weak. Everyone leaves their weakest behind, to succumb to the elements, or just to buy time for an escape. Dolphins indulge in behaviors that would be called rape and murder if humans behaved that way. Lionesses do all the work in the pride, while the lion asserts dominance, takes naps, and murders any contenders to the throne. Cuckoos practice forced abortions and a creepy child adoption scam that would be horrific by the standards of human society.

Isn't there an insect that infiltrates a frog and consumes its mass to feed its offspring? The corporation has nothing on the ruthless exploitation of the animal kingdom.

One wonders how a female wildebeest who identifies as male would fare. One concludes that such maddened outliers would be culled quite early, in evolutionary time.

Which brings us to the present moment. An artificial energy surplus tricks us into thinking we can afford any number of evolutionary dead ends. But what is the far future of humanity?
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Have you ever heard of freemartins?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemartin
 
Hercules56 said:
That's not the issue. The issue is, is it an act of bigotry for a lesbian to reject the concept of dating a transwoman because they believe transwoman are not true women?
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It's an issue to whom, though?

It does matter, especially in a world of manufactured outrage and moral panics.
 
Hercules56 said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...nary-old-animosities-boil-public-view-n958456

Its come to my attention a fascinating phenomenon: conflict between the Lesbian and Transgender communities. Some Lesbians feel the recent focus on transgender issues and rights has diminished their own struggles and push for justice and equality. Another issue is whether or not is indeed an act of BIGOTRY for a Lesbian to reject the sexual advances of a transwoman or not want to date transwomen, out of the view that they are in fact NOT women.

Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?
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Yes. Next leading question, please.
 
Okay, one article linked by the OP article is this: Not in our name

Following further vitriolic attacks on trans people in our media, the world’s leading publications for lesbians.

[snip] We do not think supporting trans women erases our lesbian identities; rather we are enriched by trans friends and lovers, parents, children, colleagues and siblings.

We strongly condemn writers and editors who seek to foster division and hate within the LGBTQI community with trans misogynistic content, and who believe “lesbian” is an identity for them alone to define. We condemn male-owned media companies who profit from the traffic generated by these controversies.

[snip]

As the leading publications for queer women, we believe it is our responsibility to call out scaremongering conspiracy theories levelled at the trans community, and make it clear that DIVA, Curve, Autostraddle, LOTL, Tagg, Lez Spread The Word, DapperQ, GO Magazine and LezWatch.TV will always be safe spaces for the trans community.
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I think its absurd to accuse straight men or lesbian women of bigotry, because they refuse to date transwomen.
 
Hercules56 said:
Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?
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Is it?

Since you started the thread, I suppose you have some stand on this that you intend to argue about instead of spinning around like a merry-go-round.

Define your stance on the issue and good reason why so instead of writing silly one lines ending in a question mark.
 
Hercules56 said:
What if a Lesbian has a stated and consistent policy that they will simply not entertain any sexual advances or overtures from a transgender woman, as they do not accept transgender women to be actual women? Is that bigotry?
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So we have a fabricated quote from a fictitious person who we've been given exactly one form of identity because that is apparently significant and speaks to...something?
 
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