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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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Blank said:
Is it?

Since you started the thread, I suppose you have some stand on this that you intend to argue about instead of spinning around like a merry-go-round.

Define your stance on the issue and good reason why so instead of writing silly one lines ending in a question mark.
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Already did. Accusing lesbians and straight men of bigotry because they refuse to date transwomen, is absurd.
 
If lesbians are into innies, and the trans woman has an outie, then the lesbian is making a fair sexual orientation call to say "I don't swing that way".

Declaring yourself a woman "on the inside" does not make you a woman "on the outside".

ETA: it's not bigotry to not want to have sex with someone who does not have the junk you are into.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Already did. Accusing lesbians and straight men of bigotry because they refuse to date transwomen, is absurd.
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Why? I mean if you think it is absurd there must be some reason that stance is superior to opposite stance.

I mean I can answer - "maybe" so how would you convince me that your stance on the issue is the correct one?
 
When are we going to start requiring people to have sex with anybody who wants to have sex with them? I mean transgender people aren't the only ones who get turned down disproportionately. What about fat people, and ugly people and short men and tall women?
 
Asa straight guy, I think I could widen my potential dating pool by occasionally self identifying as a lesbian.
 
Hercules56 said:
Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?
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[ChatGPT]
The topic you've raised is a complex and sensitive one, and it's important to approach it with respect and empathy for all individuals involved. Views on this matter can vary widely, and different people may have different perspectives.

Sexual attraction and preferences are deeply personal and subjective. Everyone has the right to choose their partners based on their own criteria, as long as it is done respectfully and without promoting harm or discrimination. However, it's essential to recognize that individuals who are transgender deserve to be treated with dignity and respect, and their gender identity should be acknowledged and affirmed.

It is important to distinguish between personal preferences and the denial of someone's gender identity. Refusing to date or be sexually involved with someone based solely on their transgender identity can be seen as discriminatory if it stems from the belief that they are not "real" women or men. This can contribute to the marginalization and stigmatization of transgender individuals.

In a society that values inclusivity and respect for all, it is beneficial to approach these situations with an open mind and a willingness to challenge preconceptions. Engaging in open and honest conversations, listening to the experiences and perspectives of transgender individuals, and educating oneself about gender identity can help foster understanding and empathy.

It's important to note that this response provides a general perspective and should not be taken as a definitive answer for every individual or situation. Different people may hold diverse views, and ongoing discussions around gender, identity, and sexuality continue to shape our understanding of these complex topics. [/ChatGPT]


Actually a nice answer, surprisingly.
 
Hercules56 said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...nary-old-animosities-boil-public-view-n958456

Its come to my attention a fascinating phenomenon: conflict between the Lesbian and Transgender communities. Some Lesbians feel the recent focus on transgender issues and rights has diminished their own struggles and push for justice and equality. Another issue is whether or not is indeed an act of BIGOTRY for a Lesbian to reject the sexual advances of a transwoman or not want to date transwomen, out of the view that they are in fact NOT women.

Is it bigoted for a lesbian or straight man to reject the sexual advances of transwomen, and reject the idea of dating transwomen, due to the belief that they are in fact not really women?
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There's really nothing new here, it's the same old TERF viewpoint. Your article says as much.



TERFs don't like trans women and don't want them included in their conception of the queer community, this lesbian dustup is just an extension of that split.
 
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Upchurch said:
That's not fair. They are all about equality. They also don't like trans men.
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As far as I can tell, TERFs hardly think about trans men at all, and when they do they see them as deluded cis women who have mutilated themselves. That said, they don't garner the same hatred because, as the article rightly points out, TERFism is largely motivated by biological essentialism and an intense hatred and mistrust of men.
 
Ask any group "Do you think it is right to be turned down for sex because of member ship in your group" and you won't get a positive answer.

Fat people think it's wrong to turn them down for being fat, short people think it's wrong to turn them down for being short, there's an entire internet subculture of sad little boys who think not getting lied is a human rights violation.

Nobody is going to go "Yeah I agree you shouldn't have sex with me, not as an individual, but as a demographic."

I'm not sure what the "is" is supposed to be here. Well I know but we're not allowed to say it.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Its the issue being discussed. You're free to not participate if you feel its an unworthy discussion.
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This is me discussing it...

It's a non-issue at this point because it's entirely hypothetical situation you've invented yourself, in order to try and make some point you can't support logically. You won't tell us who is refusing to date trans-women not will you tell us who is accusing these people of bigotry. Without such denials there reasonable discussion we can have is why you are trying to manufacture an "outrage" to argue against.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Ask any group "Do you think it is right to be turned down for sex because of member ship in your group" and you won't get a positive answer.

Fat people think it's wrong to turn them down for being fat, short people think it's wrong to turn them down for being short, there's an entire internet subculture of sad little boys who think not getting lied is a human rights violation.

Nobody is going to go "Yeah I agree you should have sex with me as a demographic."

I'm not sure what the "is" is supposed to be here. Well I know but we're not allowed to say it.
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TERFs find this strawman useful in their quest to demonize trans women, but the real heart of the issue is that they are upset that many women who date trans women also identify as lesbians.

Graham Linehan, famous for being the Most Divorced Man on Earth, regularly makes a stink about how some lesbian only dating apps allow trans women.

Dating app Her stands by transgender community after Father Ted creator Graham Linehan poses as trans woman
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https://metro.co.uk/2021/02/23/graham-linehan-joins-queer-womens-dating-app-her-stunt-14130662/

Setting aside the ridiculous smear that anyone who refuses sex with a trans woman is being smeared as a bigot, it becomes clear this is simply another example of TERFs getting upset that some people are allowing trans women into their super special Womanhood club.
 
'Some trans women are incels' is hardly a novel observation. That some make this out to be bigotry against trans women or bigotry against lesbians is also, unsurprising.

Can the set of lesbians who refuse whatever relationship (romantic, sexual, etc) also include those motivated to do so primarily from bigotry? Sure. Is even a meaningful minority of that set made up of those motivated by bigotry? Exceedingly unlikely. No one is entitled to another's body, but if you're going to reject all people of a group like say, black people, you don't have to reject their identity to do so.

Do some trans women make too big a deal of this rejection? Yes, of course. Dating is hard and especially for them so the frustrations must be compounding which in turn can make for irrational things said in hurt. Do some lesbians make too big a deal of that? Yes, of course. Thier experiences also lead to being on guard and sensitive to such accusations.

Do some cishet activities make too big a deal of all that? Yes, of course. And they as a group have zero of the mechanisms driving the bad calls from the other groups.
 
lomiller said:
It's a non-issue at this point because it's entirely hypothetical situation you've invented yourself, in order to try and make some point you can't support logically. You won't tell us who is refusing to date trans-women not will you tell us who is accusing these people of bigotry. Without such denials there reasonable discussion we can have is why you are trying to manufacture an "outrage" to argue against.
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Look up "cotton ceiling". It's very much a thing. A bit of a fringe thing, to be sure, but still absolutely a thing.
 
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