Drag Shows!!

[JoeMorgue]

This has been a core part of the bigots playbook for a while, that non-traditional sexualities doing exactly the same thing as traditional sexualities is "being overly sexual."

 

[Upchurch]

I'll just leave this here: https://www.littlemisstexaschildbeautypageant.com/beauty-pageant-gallery

I attended a cheer competition where girls as young as 6 or 7 were performing tumbling moves is tight miniskirts. Now, I see the work my daughter puts into doing the stunts. In my mind, it absolutely could be counted as a sport, but it’s the only sport I know that, after doing clothes, hair, and makeup, the uniform is approximately appropriate for going out clubbing. Again, the age range is around 6 to 16, I think.

 

[Darat]

This has been a core part of the bigots playbook for a while, that non-traditional sexualities doing exactly the same thing as traditional sexualities is "being overly sexual."

Yep - a bloke referring to his husband is shoving "it" down people's throats.

 

[Armitage72]

Yep - a bloke referring to his husband is shoving "it" down people's throats.

I've mentioned before that my mother typically reacts to that with "I don't care that they're gay, but they don't need to talk about it all the time." A man talking about his wife or a woman talking about her husband is "different" for undefined reasons.

"Why can't they stay in the closet so I can pretend they don't exist, like the good old days."

 

[gnome]

This has been a core part of the bigots playbook for a while, that non-traditional sexualities doing exactly the same thing as traditional sexualities is "being overly sexual."

I believe they tend to think of anything out of the "normal" on orientation or gender is just a sexual kink.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I believe they tend to think of anything out of the "normal" on orientation or gender is just a sexual kink.

It's pretty normal for TERFs at least to explain away drag and transgender people generally as porn obsessed kinksters or suffering from untreated mental illness like autogynephilia. With that as a starting assumption, it explains why they are so uncomfortable with drags shows or these people generally being within eyeshot of children.

A well worn path of bigots trying to smear queer people as perverts, child predators, and mentally ill.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I believe they tend to think of anything out of the "normal" on orientation or gender is just a sexual kink.

I wonder if the Supreme Court will treat heterosexual Sodomy as a right when they reverse Lawrence v Texas. Is there a constitutional right to performing oral sex on your partner or not. And if not what level of crime can it be made?

 

[Stacyhs]

That's quite the whopper. Gender role reinforcement is incredibly common in our media, including and especially straight media. There's plenty of money to be made selling womanhood, including sexualized womanhood, to young girls. Hooters has a kids menu.

There's also the obvious direct parallel of the beauty pageant, which also includes child beauty pageants. From a purely aesthetic point of view, pageantry is something that doesn't interest me, and that includes drag, but you're really bending over backwards to try to claim that drag is unique in marketing hyper-femme pageantry towards children.

If anything, drag strikes me as having a far more healthy attitude about pageantry than their straight alternatives. Drag strikes me as being much less self-serious than regular beauty pageants. The obvious difference being that drag is about transgressing gender roles, and straight beauty pageants are about reaffirming them.

Well said.

 

[Stacyhs]

My Millennial daughter had a 90's themed get together yesterday with friends. It was quite the eclectic group that bigots would have abhorred: Two are non-binary and prefer to be referred to as 'they', one is trans-gender, and two are cis-gendered. One trans-gender friend couldn't attend due to her partner having Covid.

 

[Upchurch]

My Millennial daughter had a 90's themed get together yesterday with friends. It was quite the eclectic group that bigots would have abhorred: Two are non-binary and prefer to be referred to as 'they', one is trans-gender, and two are cis-gendered. One trans-gender friend couldn't attend due to her partner having Covid.

s'what I've been saying. It doesn't matter the old people think. The kids today are not in the least bothered by the transgender kids in their schools. Given another 10-20 years, society will have cycled around to the point that transgender folks are are as accepted as gay folks are today and transphobes will sound as ridiculous as people who claim that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
My Millennial daughter had a 90's themed get together yesterday with friends. It was quite the eclectic group that bigots would have abhorred: Two are non-binary and prefer to be referred to as 'they', one is trans-gender, and two are cis-gendered. One trans-gender friend couldn't attend due to her partner having Covid.

s'what I've been saying. It doesn't matter the old people think. The kids today are not in the least bothered by the transgender kids in their schools. Given another 10-20 years, society will have cycled around to the point that transgender folks are are as accepted as gay folks are today and transphobes will sound as ridiculous as people who claim that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice.

I was wrong: 3, not 2, are non-binary. The non-binary archeologist friend arrived later.

I hope you're right. But never underestimate the ability of small-minded bigotry to be passed down from generation to generation in a family.

 

[Emily's Cat]

That's quite the whopper. Gender role reinforcement is incredibly common in our media, including and especially straight media. There's plenty of money to be made selling womanhood, including sexualized womanhood, to young girls. Hooters has a kids menu.

There's also the obvious direct parallel of the beauty pageant, which also includes child beauty pageants. From a purely aesthetic point of view, pageantry is something that doesn't interest me, and that includes drag, but you're really bending over backwards to try to claim that drag is unique in marketing hyper-femme pageantry towards children.

On the whole, I agree - the sexualization of females throughout media is rampant. And it's a sore spot for me all on its own. Child beauty pageants in particular are something that I very strongly oppose.

If anything, drag strikes me as having a far more healthy attitude about pageantry than their straight alternatives. Drag strikes me as being much less self-serious than regular beauty pageants. The obvious difference being that drag is about transgressing gender roles, and straight beauty pageants are about reaffirming them.

So here's the deal... None of the other instances of the hyper-sexualization of females involve a MALE performing that sexualization. You may enjoy drag all you want, and that's fine. I dislike it for several reasons. At the very top of that is that it is the sexist equivalent of minstrel shows - it is the performance of stereotypes about an oppressed group of people, as performed by their oppressors. In minstrel shows, it was racist stereotypes of black people as performed by white people, and it sent the inherent message that black people as a whole were a source of amusement and deserved to be laughed at and not taken seriously. To me, drag does the same thing with respect to females. It is sexist stereotypes of females as performed by males, and it sends the inherent message that females as a whole are to be laughed at, especially in terms of their sexuality. Drag performers, by the way, tend to fall into one of two tropes: The hypersexual vixen or the prude harridan.

And while not all drag performances are innately sexual in content, many of them are. That ranges from extremely heavy innuendo and burlesque-style partial stripping down to merely behaving in a sexualized way with sexualized and highly suggestive dancing.

That part - the sexualized behavior and comportment - is something I consider inappropriate for young children REGARDLESS of who is doing the performance.

It just so happens that the relatively recent insertion of drag queens into schools and libraries in performances specifically aimed at very young children brings together TWO of my pet peeves into one package. It involves both a minstrel-like performance of femininity with a (not always but often) age-inappropriate presentation, comportment, and behavior.

 

[Emily's Cat]

This has been a core part of the bigots playbook for a while, that non-traditional sexualities doing exactly the same thing as traditional sexualities is "being overly sexual."

I'm about 98% certain that parents would object to a heterosexual female gyrating in front of their young children and encouraging those kids to stuff dollar bills into their waistband too. Sexuality has nothing to do with that. Parents would object to heterosexual strippers performing suggestive dances in front of their first-graders as well. Likewise, parents would very likely object to a heterosexual male laying on the ground and inviting children to come lay on them. Sexuality has nothing to do with that complaint.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Yep - a bloke referring to his husband is shoving "it" down people's throats.

I've mentioned before that my mother typically reacts to that with "I don't care that they're gay, but they don't need to talk about it all the time." A man talking about his wife or a woman talking about her husband is "different" for undefined reasons.

"Why can't they stay in the closet so I can pretend they don't exist, like the good old days."

Yeah, that's still true with a lot of older people. For the large part, Gen-X and younger just don't give a crap, it's perfectly fine for a gay male to talk about the romantic dinner they had with their spouse.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm about 98% certain that parents would object to a heterosexual female gyrating in front of their young children

*Coughs* Cheerleaders *Coughs*

*Coughs* Teen and children beauty pageants *Coughs*

Roll those eyes harder there. Maybe you'll look inward.

And if your response is anything that involves splitting a hair over the word "gyrate" there's a 10 foot pier that way, please walk 12 feet off of it.

 

[lobosrul5]

I'm about 98% certain that parents would object to a heterosexual female gyrating in front of their young children and encouraging those kids to stuff dollar bills into their waistband too. Sexuality has nothing to do with that. Parents would object to heterosexual strippers performing suggestive dances in front of their first-graders as well. Likewise, parents would very likely object to a heterosexual male laying on the ground and inviting children to come lay on them. Sexuality has nothing to do with that complaint.

Couldn't those 98% not take their kids to such shows... along with drag shows, or any shows they find objectionable for their children to see

 

[jimbob]

There is a fine line between addressing someone's arguments and addressing the person and several recent posts have crossed the line


Others have not in my opinion.


Passionate challenges to one's statements are allowed, personal attacks are not.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[catsmate]

I'll just leave this here: https://www.littlemisstexaschildbeautypageant.com/beauty-pageant-gallery

That's a little disturbing. Creepy in fact.

 

[catsmate]

I'm about 98% certain that parents would object to a heterosexual female gyrating in front of their young children and encouraging those kids to stuff dollar bills into their waistband too. Sexuality has nothing to do with that. Parents would object to heterosexual strippers performing suggestive dances in front of their first-graders as well. Likewise, parents would very likely object to a heterosexual male laying on the ground and inviting children to come lay on them. Sexuality has nothing to do with that complaint.

What has this to do with anything in this thread!

 

[Frank Newgent]

A federal judge says Tennessee’s first-in-the-nation law designed to place strict limits on drag shows is unconstitutional.

In a 70-page ruling handed down late Friday night, U.S. District Judge Thomas Parker wrote that the law was both “unconstitutionally vague and substantially overbroad.” He also added that the statute encouraged “discriminatory enforcement.”

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politi...essees-anti-drag-law-unconstitutionally-vague