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Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

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Lplus said:
I do wonder if the "woman is entirely defined by gender and not biological characteristics" is a sincere belief of the trans activists, or if it's just a necessary adjunct of the intention to allow entire males to enter females personal spaces (in every sense of he word)
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It's based on a line of thinking that has these premises:

  1. Sex is wholly separate from gender
  2. Gender is socially constructed

This means that there isn't anything innate in what makes someone a "man" or a "woman" but rather these are just constructed roles that people are socialised into performing. So a man is a person performing the "man" role. As this is socially constructed you can just reconstruct the role to remove any sex based requirements from the role. So a female can, by performing the social role, become a "man" while still remaining female.

I feel like this line of reasoning has become popular in some influential circles and by influencing social policy has come to a point where it's come crashing into traditional definitions where sex is a necessary part to these social roles.

d4m10n said:
Some have said that people need to experience gender dysphoria in order to really be trans, IIRC.
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Bear in mind that this view, which would be considered "transmedicalist" today, has been the main view until at least 2012 where we started seeing arguments between "truscum" and "transtrenders", with the latter somehow winning out.
 
Wildy said:
This means that there isn't anything innate in what makes someone a "man" or a "woman" but rather these are just constructed roles that people are socialised into performing. So a man is a person performing the "man" role. As this is socially constructed you can just reconstruct the role to remove any sex based requirements from the role. So a female can, by performing the social role, become a "man" while still remaining female.
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It seems relatively unscientific to pretend that masculinity and femininity are in no sense tied to physical and psychological sexual dimorphism in Homo sapiens.

Story time:
Terry and Pat are cisgender, heterosexual, opposite sexed, & married to one another. One morning Terry calls Pat and asks them to drive up to the store where Terry has been shopping, because another shopper has been openly leering at Terry and following them around the store.

Suppose you knew that this story actually happened, but had to guess at the sexes of Terry, Pat, and the leering stalker. Can you do so with reasonably high confidence, based on your experience of the world?

(If you guessed that Pat and the stalker are both male, you are correct.)
 
ESPN reporter Samantha Ponder liked a tweet by Riley Gaines, and a sports columnist for USA Today just can't deal with it:

Don’t be fooled by the people who screech about "fairness" to cloak their bigotry toward transgender girls and women, the transgender girls and women who have the audacity to want to play sports, in particular.

This is, and always was, about hate, fear and ignorance.
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This is pretty typical of the way trans advocates operate. They don't just question the motives of their opponents, they dismiss them as nothing more than hate. No need for debate.

Dig a little deeper into Ponder's timeline, and it's clear her hostility toward transgender women goes far beyond their participation in sports. In January, she replied, “Yes. Thank you.” to Megyn Kelly’s screed about a transgender woman going to the gynecologist.
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Because of course it's completely reasonable for transwomen to go to a gynecologist.
 
theprestige said:
"Transgender identity is not a mental disorder!"
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Just for balance, this

Why would a trans woman go to a gynecologist?
A transgender woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth (AMAB). Does someone without a uterus or cervix still need gynecological care? Sometimes!

A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery (commonly referred to as “bottom surgery”) will still need gynecological care for her new vulva and vagina.

https://www.draliabadi.com/womens-health-blog/why-is-transgender-gynecology-important/
 
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Samson said:
Just for balance, this

Why would a trans woman go to a gynecologist?
A transgender woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth (AMAB). Does someone without a uterus or cervix still need gynecological care? Sometimes!

A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery (commonly referred to as “bottom surgery”) will still need gynecological care for her new vulva and vagina.

https://www.draliabadi.com/womens-health-blog/why-is-transgender-gynecology-important/
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I wonder how many OBGYNs are at all familiar with whatever nip/tuck procedures are used to give a dude a "vulva and vagina", or with the ways the resulting structures differ from the body parts actually taught in med school.

A friend of mine had a GI tube installed during surgery for a herniated bowel. The surgical team was confident that, barring complications, the tube could be removed by my friend, at home, about a month after the surgery.

There were no medical complications, but my friend changed jobs and healthcare providers during that month.

The new medical team needed six months of imaging, re-imaging, hemming, and hawing, before they finally felt comfortable picking up where the previous team had left off. The actual removal took five minutes, just as predicted.

So I question the premise that a dude who's had plastic surgery to turn their outie into an innie needs to be visiting an OBGYN. They probably need to be visiting a trans-surgical specialist.
 
Samson said:
Just for balance, this

Why would a trans woman go to a gynecologist?
A transgender woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth (AMAB). Does someone without a uterus or cervix still need gynecological care? Sometimes!

A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery (commonly referred to as “bottom surgery”) will still need gynecological care for her new vulva and vagina.

https://www.draliabadi.com/womens-health-blog/why-is-transgender-gynecology-important/
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The transwoman in question has not had bottom surgery. IOW, going to the gynecologist is part of role-playing as a woman.
 
Brainster said:
ESPN reporter Samantha Ponder liked a tweet by Riley Gaines, and a sports columnist for USA Today just can't deal with it...
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Speaking of Riley Gaines, I listened to a podcast in which she was interviewed by some blowhard psychologist.



If you scroll to around an hour and ten minutes, she tells the story of Reka Gyorgy which was fairly heartbreaking.
 


Here's Professor Kathleen Stock being interviewed by former politician Ed Balls ahead of her talk at the Oxford Union this evening, which is expected to attract vociferous protests.

The comments under the video are pretty one-sided.
 
Samson said:
Just for balance, this

Why would a trans woman go to a gynecologist?
A transgender woman is a woman who was assigned male at birth (AMAB). Does someone without a uterus or cervix still need gynecological care? Sometimes!

A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery (commonly referred to as “bottom surgery”) will still need gynecological care for her new vulva and vagina.

https://www.draliabadi.com/womens-health-blog/why-is-transgender-gynecology-important/
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A man who has bottom surgery to mimic being female has NO vulva and NO vagina. It is an essentially an open wound that needs care from a specialist in that area. Gynecologists are also not used to prostate care.

It is a fantasy appointment that is ridiculous for any actual medical care.

(I realize you are just postulating the opposition but there are some strong facts about this that are not up for debate)
 
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Matthew Best said:
Here's Professor Kathleen Stock being interviewed by former politician Ed Balls ahead of her talk at the Oxford Union this evening, which is expected to attract vociferous protests.
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Here's a photo of a protest which nicely illustrates the situation at Oxford:
https://twitter.com/rizpossnett/status/1663591786240159744

c6acff14504d16a4ed2b6d976361a021.jpg
 
Matthew Best said:


Here's Professor Kathleen Stock being interviewed by former politician Ed Balls ahead of her talk at the Oxford Union this evening, which is expected to attract vociferous protests.

The comments under the video are pretty one-sided.
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I don't see that Ed Balls presented any other side. Like most people who take the socially-rewarded position, he hasn't bothered to think anything through because he knows he can get away with moral grandstanding, self-righteousness and bullying without any argument. He objects to the position that a male can't be a woman (which is to do with how the word woman is defined), but also says he agrees that a woman can't have a penis. He seems to have some muddled objection to not distinguishing legal and biological sex, but removing a penis is not required to change legal sex in the UK. He clearly has no idea what Stock is arguing and doesn't care.
 
Matthew Best said:


Here's Professor Kathleen Stock being interviewed by former politician Ed Balls ahead of her talk at the Oxford Union this evening, which is expected to attract vociferous protests.

The comments under the video are pretty one-sided.
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"Kathleen Stock. An intelligent & courageous woman & a voice of reason in a world of madness."

"The arrogance of Ed Balls claiming that people in the centre ground all think like him. He’s so utterly surrounded by an echo chamber he can’t fathom someone/others having different views. The bias on this show is disgusting"

"How the **** is women wanting their privacy, safety & fair competition an extreme position."

"Even without a poll, I'm confident the majority of citizens would agree with Kathleen's common sense reality."
​

They certainly are!
 
There was a good interview with Kathleen Stock a couple of months ago from the Institute of Art and Ideas. She gives a good explanation of the philosophical issues surrounding gender identity.

 
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