Split Thread Atheism and lack of belief in the afterlife
- Thread starter psionl0
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That's what always pisses me off, the demand for some kind of deep moral and societal justification when "It's wrong, it's factually wrong" is really all the justification needed.
To turn back to everyone's favorite metaphor I don't have to wait for the invisible dragon in my garage to tell people to launch suicide attacks on non-believers before saying there's no dragon in my garage.
To turn back to everyone's favorite metaphor I don't have to wait for the invisible dragon in my garage to tell people to launch suicide attacks on non-believers before saying there's no dragon in my garage.
acbytesla
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As I have said many times about why I don't believe the Bible, "the book starts with a talking snake." Why would I or anyone believe a snake or a donkey spoke to anyone? Because some anonymous ancient peasant said it happened? Using the Bible to prove the Bible is
Then you add in the countless claims in the Bible that are contradicted by science. I mean the very first sentence in the Bible is contradicted by science.
"In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth."
Well the universe is estimated to be at least 13+ billion years old whereas the earth and other planets and moons in our solar system is estimated to be approximately 4.5 billion years old. So clearly they didn’t orignate at the same time. And this is only the beginning. Genesis has plants predating light. Yet light is necessary for plants.
One could go on and on in the Bible and see there are falsehood after falsehood as well as ridiculous story after ridiculous story. You could theoretically use science to prove the bible. That is, if reality was different than it is. Sadly for believers science proves the opposite.
MRC_Hans
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Uh, what kind of observations? I mean, TOE is supported by solid evidence on an extensive number of levels. We can't discuss some fluffy thing; what might you have observed (state a, possibly imaginary, example)?
Hans
acbytesla
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I'm open to the TOE being proved wrong. But doing it would be tantamount to disproving that obects on Earth don't fall at 9.8 meters a second or 1.6 on the Moon.
I'm open to it, but it simply is not going to happen.
I read the Buybull (a.k.a. Tanakh) when I was 17 during the summer holidays a century ago.
What astounded me was its arrant and abject contradiction to logic, science, decency and reality altogether.
It is a repugnant ignorant pile of mephitic claptrap.
But... it was not that which astounded me most.... no!!
What astounded me most is... even if I had no idea about science... and even if I allowed for reality to be utterly contorted and warped by the will of YHWH and even if I went along with the sordid tribalism and racism of YHWH... even if I allowed for all that and granted it all as real and acceptable....
Even after that... I can use the Buybull to actually disprove the Buybull.
I don't need science or archaeology or extrabiblical facts or reality... and I do not even need to be a decent human... the Buybull is its own debunker.
Using the Buybull in its own universe... the Buybull debunks itself.
For example...
Forget all about creating the plants before the sun and all that about reality and science facts.
If one reads Genesis 1 to 3 carefully one will have an amazing debunking for the Buybull right there in the first 3 chapters (80 verses).
Not in the way they contradict science or reality... nope... in the way they prove
And the theme of the above 3 points is repeated throughout the Buybull... you can use the Buybull itself to show that its deity YHWH is claptrap.If one reads Genesis 1 to 3 carefully one will have an amazing debunking for the Buybull right there in the first 3 chapters (80 verses).
Not in the way they contradict science or reality... nope... in the way they prove
- There are two gods and YHWH is the lesser one
- YHWH is not prescient nor omnipotent nor benevolent
- YHWH is nasty
Here is another example:
I defy an sane rational person to read Chapters 13-15 in Leviticus and not conclude that YHWH is claptrap... not because of the atrocious lack of knowledge of medicine or reality... no!!
Because of the abjectly risible and benighted and grotesque VOODOO ritual prescribed in lieu of even the most rudimentary herbal medicine and the wicked lack of compassion or empathy or sympathy or humanity.
This is how even without science knowledge and even with acceptance of the supernatural abilities of YHWH... the actions and the words of YHWH in the Buybull in themselves prove that YHWH is a sordid claptrap.Because of the abjectly risible and benighted and grotesque VOODOO ritual prescribed in lieu of even the most rudimentary herbal medicine and the wicked lack of compassion or empathy or sympathy or humanity.
Throughout the entire Buybull... from start to finish.
So even if all science is bunk and all reality is a hoax and the only true thing on earth is the Bubybull... the Buybull proves that its deity is a DEMON and not worthy of anything other than spittle or worse flung on its dastardly sordid nasty malevolent essence
... all one has to do is read the damnable mephitic pile of claptrap called the Buybull.
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The thing is that all the well funded concerted machinations and chicanery to undermine the theory of evolution are not at all necessary since the concerned god-hawkers do not need to be concerned about losing their god-peddling concerns given these facts
But... the problem is not just god-hawking... it is Jesus-hawking too.
If evolution is true then there cannot be any possible need for Jesus since mud-man and his baculum-lady could not possibly have been real and thus no "original sin" and no need for the god being hawked to have had a festering grudge and having had to resort to the human blood sacrifice of his ill begotten son and all that farcical melodrama of the Jesus tall tale.
So as you see Behe as a devout Catholic, even though he went along with the decree of the Infallible god's spokesman and accepted evolution... he STILL needs to justify the farcical melodrama of Jesus... and thus needs to undermine TOE in a way that would still keep Jesus in action.
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Gord_in_Toronto
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Brings to mind Pierre Teilhard de ChardinWP who managed in his own mind to reconcile Darwinian Evolution and the Bible.. (Your mileage may vary, however.)
acbytesla
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I was a Christian. That is I went to Christian churches. I even went to Bible camps in the summer. (Great place to get laid)
I never believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible and saw the many ridiculous stories they taught us as metaphors. I never thought it was scientifically correct.
To me, being a Christian meant being committed to loving and forgiving our fellow man. The character Jesus provided an example of how we should treat one another. But the truth was I never had read more than selected passages in the Bible. And almost all of those were from the New Testament.
But about the age of 19 or 20 I decided to read the whole book. Starting with Genesis. I'm not sure you can make it through Genesis let alone the Torah/Pentateuch without realizing that whatever one might think of Jesus, the God in the Bible is awful. As Richard Dawkins said, "God is the most unpleasant character in all fiction."
Reading the Old Testament destroyed any value I had ever found in the Bible.
Gord_in_Toronto
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Per Mark Twain: "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible."
The Catholic Church knows it should never have been translated it from Latin.
However, it has provided close to 2000 years of work for Christian apologists.
GDon
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No, this is a fluffy hypothetical! So fluffy it can appear in a fluffy puppy Youtube video. I wanted to make that clear since, knowing the Internet, by this time tomorrow I'll be accused of claiming to be able to overthrow the Theory of Evolution and denying computers and cell phones work!
Fluffy hypothetical! Fluffy fluffy!acbytesla
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Per Mark Twain: "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible." The Catholic Church knows it should never have been translated it from Latin.
However, it has provided close to 2000 years of work for Christian apologists.
I remember when I told my pastor I was going to read Bible from the beginning, he told me not to. Said I wouldn't understand it. But comprehension wasn’t the problem. God is horrible. It's a good thing he's not real.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
I was around 8-9 years old when I asked my mother about God. She said here's the Bible go read it. So I did. By half way through I was already an atheist. Where was the God of Peace and Love? But the New Testament would be better, I thought. Jesus at least was a good guy, right? "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind". What, this god???
Far from it... his example... as clearly narrated in the New Tall tales... is of how to be a racist hate monger, and a servile poltroon and a haughty arrogant cruel cad and a nasty ignorant cultist.
But of course you could have never known that because christian cult leaders go to great lengths to assure the below
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Or perhaps not actually being able to do it but rather hoping to do so while using computers and smartphones to search for anything that might do it.
So to stop this internet error maybe you ought to heed your own words...
In times when the pharaoh of Egypt and the Roman emperors were God's in the flesh, and too much disagreement might mean a horrible death. Then "god" had a wider interpretation than today.
The people that handed down the stories that eventually became holy texts lived in times that we can barely guess at how it really was.
Now rewrite, edit and mistranslate that for a millenia or two it's no wonder we can question how this god is or was.
An uneducated bronze age man living in constant fear of invasion, famine, illness or whatever might have seen this horrible god as a reflection of his world.
He wasn't stupid by a longshot,, but our modern knowledge and technology allow us to easily avoid what killed his villages. His gods are now obsolete.
The people that handed down the stories that eventually became holy texts lived in times that we can barely guess at how it really was.
Now rewrite, edit and mistranslate that for a millenia or two it's no wonder we can question how this god is or was.
An uneducated bronze age man living in constant fear of invasion, famine, illness or whatever might have seen this horrible god as a reflection of his world.
He wasn't stupid by a longshot,, but our modern knowledge and technology allow us to easily avoid what killed his villages. His gods are now obsolete.
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Per Mark Twain: "The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible."
The Catholic Church knows it should never have been translated it from Latin.
However, it has provided close to 2000 years of work for Christian apologists.
They should have never even translated it to Latin in the first place... they should have left it all in Koine Greek... even native Greek-speakers struggle to understand Koine Greek nowadays.
Cognitive Dissonance Alleviation rationalizations abound.
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Judging by the number of pedophile priests and lecherous pastors and lascivious reverends and licentious preachers and salacious apologists... I am sure that proscription had no effect on them whatsoever.
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Little 10 Toes
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First, it's Bible. That is its name.
Second, which "Bible"? I believe this is the second time you have mentioned "Bible" and have meant the Jewish Bible/Tanakh.