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Wrong door shootings.

Thermal said:
Wait the latter is a grant? Anyone who says they just intend to start a collection bypasses all the other accrptable reasons?
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Yes. It is not a bypass. It is one of the acceptable reasons.

I've owned guns, most commonly 12 ga shotguns (the only legal hunting firearm in Jersey, aside from a short muzzleloader season), for most of my adult life.
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...dren-legal-england-wales-police-a9634116.html

"Seven-year-old among 2,800 children granted gun licences by police in England and Wales"
 
Nessie said:
Yes. It is not a bypass. It is one of the acceptable reasons.
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Ok, then I'm confused. That would mean there is basically no practical restriction of any kind. It means "I just want some guns" is good enough, and all this chatter about grousing at Country Clubs is irrelevant. You can just have guns if you want to amass guns?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...dren-legal-england-wales-police-a9634116.html

"Seven-year-old among 2,800 children granted gun licences by police in England and Wales"
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Ok but so what? You said there were far more reasons to own guns than I would have thought, but you haven't mentioned even one that I have not been fully aware of since I was a kid myself.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Without cheating a googling it tell me how much ammo a person in Switzerland has accessible in their house.
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As a Swiss resident... I'm interested how little guns are a thing around here. Sure, most blokes of military service age have their SG 550 knocking around but I don't know anybody who would want ammo in their house. So many guns in circulation... so little shooting.
 
Nessie said:
You gave me an example of someone with a job, and I gave you a common scenario of a city dweller who shoots vermin on a farm for free.
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You are claiming, presumably with a straight face, that it is a "common scenario" for rural farm owners to contract out vermin shooting to telephone sanitizers from London who contract-kill varmints as a side gig? Color me skeptical. But more to the point, I didn't ask about a hypothetical mousey John Wick side gig scenario. I asked about city dwellers without rural connections, and pretty obviously.

It is not a ban, it is a right, with conditions. Granting certificates is by a will grant system with common sense conditions, for a wide variety of reasons and it can be done cheaply and easily.

You did not realise that and you are reluctant to accept your mistakes.
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Or perhaps your argument is not as persuasive as you feel it is.
 
Hercules56 said:
There are many more examples of mass-murder around the world, performed without a gun.
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Sure, many, because it's a big world. But come on man. Nothing compares to our sheer body count by firearms and that persistently coincidental correlation to firearm availability.
 
Nessie said:
It is not a ban, when 3/4 of a million people who have applied have been granted and millions more could get a gun if they wanted one.

The common reasons to grant are sports shooting (target, clays) game (grouse, deer) vermin control (rabbits, foxes), population control (deer again) and humane killing.

Licences are also granted for collections (museums displaying firearms will have a nominated licence holder), historic weapons (I did a licence for a WWII luger taken from a surrendered senior Nazi), research and development of weapons (secret stuff that even now I cannot discuss) and for film and TV work (the companies rent weapons off approved weaponry experts).

Shotgun only licences do not legally need to provide a reason, but they are asked and always give one.

A few people, including a distant relative of mine, have guns for self-defence reasons, many of whom are in Northern Ireland.
It does not matter where you live, what matters is that you have permission to shoot over suitable land for one of those reasons, or you qualify for a collection etc.



It is default approval, so long you meet the criteria, which is not that difficult for anyone who is not a criminal or nutter and can provide one of the many reasons to possess.



It is false to describe the UK system as really restrictive and a de facto ban. So long as you are a decent person and you have a reason, you WILL be granted a licence.
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Aren't all the non-NI PPW licenses issued by the Home Office directly?
Certainly most the ~3k UK PPW licenses are in Norn Iron.
 
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jeremyp said:
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
You won't get no murders with better gun control, but you will get fewer murders. That's an improvement, right?

Similarly, you can't get rid of all the guns (even here in the UK there are still quite a lot of people who have guns) but if you can cut down the number of people who have them, you will have fewer murders. That's got to be good, right?

Right?
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It is an excuse for inaction however.
 
Thermal said:
Truth be told, I'd DQ anyone who answered "no" to those questions as being intentionally deceptive (except maybe for making plans to end your life, but even there I've heard estimates as high as half the population who made one level or another of plans to do so).

I mean, really? Thought about harming or hurting someone? Show me someone who hasn't.

ETA: or better yet, show me someone who could claim to answer "no", and I'll show you a liar or the most incredible photographic memory ever.
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That's something I consider a real problem, when it's worded so broadly. My stepdaughter once got Baker Acted because after acting out in school, she was asked if she had EVER thought of hurting herself or someone else, and when she answered honestly, it was off you go to the facility. They got her on her way and booked in before they even called us! Since when does "have you ever" imply a current mental health crisis? Technically if they followed that methodology they'd have to lock her up every time they asked her the question unless she decided to start lying about her past mental health.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Israel. Lots of guns. Barely any mass shootings.

Same with Switzerland.
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You do know that in Switzerland it is a requirement of every male citizen to hold a firearm as part of the militia, the ammo for said gun is not allowed to be held unless the citizen is on active duty?

Furthermore outside of the service requirements, Switzerland has one of the most restrictive private gun ownership regimes in the world, it is very hard to gain a gun licence in Swizerland.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
You do know that in Switzerland it is a requirement of every male citizen to hold a firearm as part of the militia, the ammo for said gun is not allowed to be held unless the citizen is on active duty?
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Damnit why? I kept asking seeing what he would make up to get around that.
 
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