Cont: The Russian invasion of Ukraine part 6

[Michel H]

Russian thought processes do leave a lot to be desired, don't they.

Russia (with its president Vladimir Putin) isn't an ideal country, but there are strong elements of irrationality in Ukrainian thinking too: sacrificing many young soldiers in order to conquer Crimea (one of Ukraine's goals) isn't rational or intelligent (Crimea is pro-Russia).

This is really destroying lives for destroying democracy.

Ukraine is obsessed with a toxic goal of total victory against Russia, with Western support, that they seem actually unable to achieve.

 

[Aridas]

Russia (with its president Vladimir Putin) isn't an ideal country, but there are strong elements of irrationality in Ukrainian thinking too: sacrificing many young soldiers in order to conquer Crimea (one of Ukraine's goals) isn't rational or intelligent (Crimea is pro-Russia).

This is really destroying lives for destroying democracy.

Ukraine is obsessed with a toxic goal of total victory against Russia, with Western support, that they seem actually unable to achieve.

The case that you're trying to make here is pathetic gaslighting, through and through. No more needs said, by now. Thanks for confirming that Russian thought processes do indeed leave a lot to be desired, though.

 

[Jimbo07]

Russia (with its president Vladimir Putin) isn't an ideal country, but there are strong elements of irrationality in Ukrainian thinking too:

This is a false equivalence.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Russia (with its president Vladimir Putin) isn't an ideal country, but there are strong elements of irrationality in Ukrainian thinking too: sacrificing many young soldiers in order to conquer Crimea (one of Ukraine's goals) isn't rational or intelligent (Crimea is pro-Russia).

This is really destroying lives for destroying democracy.

Ukraine is obsessed with a toxic goal of total victory against Russia, with Western support, that they seem actually unable to achieve.

You don't seem to understand how humans work. Ukraine is humiliating Russia on the battlefield, thanks in no small part to their non-secret weapons of high morale and sense of purpose and righteous anger at the invasion.

What do you think it would do for that morale if their leadership said "We'll keep killing them for a bit longer but eventually I expect we'll probably just give it up and do a deal with them" rather than "We'll drive every last invader out of our beloved homeland"?

It's possible this war will end with a compromise over the control of Crimea. But one does not negotiate by appearing willing to give stuff up before talks even begin. If you do, then the stuff you're already willing to give up is taken as given and becomes only the starting point for further concessions.

That is not irrational.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Russia just doubled its border with NATO. Putin couldn't have given the Alliance a bigger boost if he had planned to.

 

[lobosrul5]

Looks to be confirmed that the UK and US have special forces in Ukraine.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...present-in-ukraine-this-year-us-leak-suggests

According to the files, US officials assessed at the time that of the 97 special forces from Nato countries active in Ukraine, 50 were British. This is considerably higher than the number from the US and France, which were said to have deployed 14 and 15 special forces respectively.

 

[theprestige]

NATO is a threat to Moscow's imperialism, not Moscow's sovereignty.

 

[Jimbo07]

NATO is a threat to Moscow's imperialism, not Moscow's sovereignty.

Poor Putin. His dreams of Empire are dead... but Russian culture isn't.

This wasn't, and still isn't, existential for the Russian people, despite what Russian leadership says. It is existential for Ukraine.

Anyone who says otherwise, at this point, is either mistaken or lying.

 

[Michel H]

Poor Putin. His dreams of Empire are dead... but Russian culture isn't.

This wasn't, and still isn't, existential for the Russian people, despite what Russian leadership says. It is existential for Ukraine.

Anyone who says otherwise, at this point, is either mistaken or lying.

Putin didn't really have to start this war, but Ukraine could probably end it quickly by giving its pro-Russia regions to Russia, and thereby say "bye bye" to a lot of future problems.

This is actually an extremely simple situation but, when you deal with war and peace issues, the simplest ideas are not necessarily the best understood.

Ukraine (and perhaps its many supporters on this forum) would like to defeat and humiliate Russia, but I don't think this is working out very well for them.

 

[lobosrul5]

Putin didn't really have to start this war, but Ukraine could probably end it quickly by giving its pro-Russia regions to Russia, and thereby say "bye bye" to a lot of future problems.

This is actually an extremely simple situation but, when you deal with war and peace issues, the simplest ideas are not necessarily the best understood.

Ukraine (and perhaps its many supporters on this forum) would like to defeat and humiliate Russia, but I don't think this is working out very well for them.

Well, yeah, but only because Russia has done that all on their own.

 

[dudalb]

Russia just doubled its border with NATO. Putin couldn't have given the Alliance a bigger boost if he had planned to.

What is more important, is NATO now has a border less then a two hour drive from the second biggest city in Russia, St Petersburg.

 

[dudalb]

Looks to be confirmed that the UK and US have special forces in Ukraine.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...present-in-ukraine-this-year-us-leak-suggests

According to the files, US officials assessed at the time that of the 97 special forces from Nato countries active in Ukraine, 50 were British. This is considerably higher than the number from the US and France, which were said to have deployed 14 and 15 special forces respectively.

I have to brag a little; almost a year ago I said I thought some Green Berets..in civilian clothes, of course, were training Ukranian soldiers. That is what Special Forces do (BTW in the US military, Special Forces has a very specific meaning as oppposed to the borader Special Operations).

 

[lobosrul5]

I have to brag a little; almost a year ago I said I thought some Green Berets..in civilian clothes, of course, were training Ukranian soldiers. That is what Special Forces do (BTW in the US military, Special Forces has a very specific meaning as oppposed to the borader Special Operations).

If you dig you'll find I said something roughly similar. That I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few green beret types giving indirect support of some kind. Either training, intelligence, or advice. I am however a bit surprised that the UK had by far the most, and also that France had some. Good on the 2nd and 3rd largest (by military strength) NATO members.

 

[Planigale]

Trivia.

UK donates Sea King helicopter flown by Prince Andrew in the Falklands conflict to Ukraine navy.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Have they cleaned the sweat stains off the upholstery?

 

[dudalb]

Arrest made in Ukraine documents leak case. 21 year old Airman who was a member of a MAGA chat room group. He is headed for a long stay at the FLorence, Colorado Federal Maxiprison. aka "Alcttrax in the Rockies". Makes leavenworth look like a trip to Disneyland.

 

[Hercules56]

Arrest made in Ukraine documents leak case. 21 year old Airman who was a member of a MAGA chat room group. He is headed for a long stay at the FLorence, Colorado Federal Maxiprison. aka "Alcttrax in the Rockies". Makes leavenworth look like a trip to Disneyland.

Scumbag traitor.

Figured would be a MAGAt.

They love Putin cuz he's such an "alpha male" who hates Gays and immigrants.

 

[Steve]

Scumbag traitor.

Figured would be a MAGAt.

They love Putin cuz he's such an "alpha male" who hates Gays and immigrants.

Wonder what twisted thinking is required to think that leaking secret American info to America's enemies somehow makes America "great".

 

[The Don]

Wonder what twisted thinking is required to think that leaking secret American info to America's enemies somehow makes America "great".

Perhaps he was just showing off to his friends and hadn't really thought through the implications. Then again MAGA is pro-Russian and the GOP wants to cut off aid to Ukraine

 

[dasmiller]

Perhaps he was just showing off to his friends and hadn't really thought through the implications.

I've been amazed (and somewhat disturbed) at how quickly some guys (in my experience, it's always guys) can become very agitated and defensive when someone disagrees with them on some assessment of the US military. I can easily picture a dumb argument quickly becoming very heated and this guy finally smuggling out the dox to prove he was right.