Christianity is a grotesque blight!

So I have just wasted precious minutes of my limited time on this earth (re)reading 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 (as specified by the OP in post #125).

Neither describes or claims any god either demanding or loving human sacrifice.


Leumas, I have to ask: what the **** are you on about?
 
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I suggest you ask the poster of the post below.... I was quoting the word from that post.

But Thermal's syntax was perfectly clear. He used "take" to mean to accept something, or perceive something to be a certain way. Was that not clear to you? Maybe you'll argue next about what the meaning of "is" is.

So, again, what do you mean by the following?

"Do atheists 'take' the Buybull at all let alone literally or figuratively???..." [sic]


By the way, if you're going to use three question marks and three periods, why not go all-out for whatever it is you're trying to accomplish by adding in a bunch of other tripled punctuation marks???...!!!~~~:::''';;;
 
So I have just wasted precious minutes of my limited time on this earth (re)reading 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7.

Neither has any god either demanding or loving human sacrifice.


Leumas, I have to ask: what the **** are you on about?


On the very same page (page#3) in this thread with your post #92 which says this

As an atheist I feel no compunction to rebut any part of the bible, no matter how carefully cherry-picked.

It's just a book. Written by unknown people over centuries, and then edited, compiled, recompiled, re-edited, &c. It has no consistent message. It isn't a reliable history. It has no authority, moral or legal.

There is nothing to rebut. It's just a bunch of stories.

That's my view, anyway.


There are post #100 and post #101... I suggest you read them... they already show how wrong you are when you say....


So I have just wasted precious minutes of my limited time on this earth (re)reading 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7.

Neither has any god either demanding or loving human sacrifice.
 
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So I have just wasted precious minutes of my limited time on this earth (re)reading 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 (as specified by the OP in post #125).

Neither describes or claims any god either demanding or loving human sacrifice.


Leumas, I have to ask: what the **** are you on about?

On the very same page (page#3) in this thread with your post #92 which says this
As an atheist I feel no compunction to rebut any part of the bible, no matter how carefully cherry-picked.

It's just a book. Written by unknown people over centuries, and then edited, compiled, recompiled, re-edited, &c. It has no consistent message. It isn't a reliable history. It has no authority, moral or legal.

There is nothing to rebut. It's just a bunch of stories.

That's my view, anyway.
There are post #100 and post #101... I suggest you read them... they already show how wrong you are when you say....

Wut?

Seriously, friend, this argument is blancmange. Also, I don't think we're on page 3 anymore, Toto.


[I haven't reproduced your highlights, because they were, as far as I can tell, irrelevant]
 
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I would be very interested in discussing this novel (but totally wrong and utterly anti-christian) notion that Jesus was not the expiatory lamb for the sins of the world as stated by him and Paul and all over the New Tall tales.
Clearly you still don't get the difference between personal sacrifice and human sacrifice.

this thread is about how 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 are irrefragable proofs for YHWH being a demander and commander and accepter and enjoyer of human sacrifice.
If that's what you want then then stick to that.

2 Samuel 21
Gibeonite Vengeance
5 They said to the king, “As for the man who was exterminating us and who intended to destroy us that we might have no place in all the territory of Israel,

6 let seven men from among his descendants be given to us, that we may execute them before the LORD in Gibeon, on the LORD’s mountain.” The king replied, “I will give them up.”​

This was revenge pure and simple. No evidence that God commanded or enjoyed the killings per se.

Joshua 7
Defeat at Ai.
1But the Israelites acted treacherously with regard to the ban; Achan, son of Carmi, son of Zabdi, son of Zerah of the tribe of Judah, took goods that were under the ban, and the anger of the LORD flared up against the Israelites.

20Achan answered Joshua, “I have indeed sinned against the LORD, the God of Israel. This is what I have done:

21Among the spoils, I saw a beautiful Babylonian mantle, two hundred shekels of silver, and a bar of gold fifty shekels in weight; I coveted them and I took them. They are now hidden in the ground inside my tent, with the silver underneath.”

25Joshua said, “What misery have you caused us? May the LORD bring misery upon you today!” And all Israel stoned him to death. They burnt them with fire and they stoned them.​

Crime and punishment. Not a word about Human sacrifice.

That's 0 for 2. You do not get another try.
 
No Leumas, junkshop is correct. 2nd Samuel 1-14 does not show God/YHWH demanding or loving human sacrifice.

Also, please stop with the "Buybull", "New Tales", and "Old Tales".


No Little 10 Toes... you and Junshop are the ones who are clearly wrong... as I have irrefutably proven in this post and this post... irrespective of the Ipse dixit fallacious assertion in the above post.

And no I will not stop calling the New Tall tales by its proper description and the Buybull by a perfect description of what it is.... what is the reason for your objection to my soundly befitting description of those fairy tales for what they truthfully are???
 
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Clearly you still don't get the difference between personal sacrifice and human sacrifice.


No Roger... what is clear is that you do not... as proven in this post and this post.


2 Samuel 21
....This was revenge pure and simple. No evidence that God commanded or enjoyed the killings per se.
....

Joshua 7
...
Crime and punishment. Not a word about Human sacrifice....


No Roger... you are very wrong... as already amply proven in this post and this post.
 
That's pretty simplistic.

I'm not sure that Aphrodite, or Osiris demanded human sacrifice, for example or indeed many Greek deities, which often had animal sacrifices.

True, but SOME sort of sacrifice, whether humans or otherwise, seems to be required.
 
The passage quoted above from Paul does put a kink in things, but it's not clear even so who did the sacrificing to whom. It seems Paul considers Jesus to have been sacrificed to appease a divine plan, but but does the divine Jesus count as a human being in the first place? And who is doing the sacrificing? The Romans killed him but they weren't trying to appease JHWH. Can a sacrifice be accidental? Can an execution be declared a sacrifice after the fact? Did God know what he was doing before he started this, or was he making it up as he went along? Is it a real sacrifice if it's really just a parlor trick and three days later Jesus is right back where he started? Must we presume that the word "sacrifice" is strictly applied in the text, and always means the same thing? The more you try to make sense of this all, and the more literally you try to interpret it, the less sense it makes. We have, it seems, a god who provided a savior who offered a redemption for the world, but whom the world killed, all according to a pre-arranged plan...or not, depending on how you see it. We are not treated to the knowledge of what would have happened if he had succeeded, become a leader of the people, and died of old age. We are left with the apparent paradox that he redeems us by having failed to redeem us.

It's a part of this argument I don't quite get. It seems clear enough from the terminology used here that Leumas is of the opinion that the Bible is baloney, and that the religion it attempts to convey is nonsense, a contention with which many, if not most, or possibly even all, of us would concur. And yet we continue to argue on the presumption that the Bible and the religion it conveys is coherent and rational.
 
As I see it, Christ's sacrifice was more along the lines of a soldier throwing himself on a grenade. It's not a "human sacrifice" as we would use that term, as in humans killing another human. It's taking one for the team voluntarily, writ large.
 
The passage quoted above from Paul does put a kink in things, .....

As I see it, Christ's sacrifice was more along the lines of a soldier throwing himself ....


Why don't you discuss that in the thread about Jesus being a Zombified human sacrifice to YHWH and ill begotten by YHWH so as to be sacrificed to YHWH in order to appease YHWH... this one is about 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 being irrefragable proofs for YHWH being a monstrous sadist who wreaks CURSES to torment people and then demands human sacrifice to stop doing that... and accepts the human sacrifice and is appeased by it and stops tormenting his victims.

As proven in this post and this one.
 
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Why don't you discuss that in the thread about Jesus being a Zombified human sacrifice to YHWH and ill begotten by YHWH so as to be sacrificed to YHWH in order to appease YHWH... this one is about 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 being irrefragable proofs for YHWH being a monstrous sadist who wreaks CURSES to torment people and then demands human sacrifice to stop doing that... and accepts the human sacrifice and is appeased by it and stops tormenting his victims.

As proven in this post and this one.
The statement you claim was not relevant to this thread was in direct response to quotations you provided in this thread. If talking about what you provided in this thread is not pertinent to it, the fault is not mine. I repeat, the introduction of Paul's writing to this thread was done by you. If it also belongs in another thread, it's a pretty clear indication that the two threads cover the same ground.

I'm not prepared to start yet another thread about what I think is essentially the same thing. I'm quite willing to concur that the god of the Bible, whatever he is called in various parts thereof, is a monstrous sadist who torments people (which we can presume absent other evidence, he enjoys at some level), and that the only way the gospel stories come close to making sense is, as you appear to suggest, as a plan whereby the passive-aggressive god induces curses in order to exact punishment and repentance, a circularity in which he guarantees that the people he created will end up forsaking him so he can punish them. A jealous god who demands not only obedience but ritual and worship, and as in the case of Job, and by some readings Abraham and Isaac, is so insecure that he can't just take it as it comes but must test it in the cruelest ways possible.

What I dispute is whether this constitutes what should be called human sacrifice in the religious sense that other acts of sacrifice are expounded, any more than one would apply that term to, say, Stalin's murder of peasants, or other bloodthirsty escapades. And even if after the fact, a bloke like Paul can claim Jesus's crucifixion was a sacrifice to God, that's not what was ostensibly going on at the time. The only way to reconcile that is to understand that the whole thing was a setup job from the start.

And I'm of the opinion that if one is going to bother to dig into the Bible in any literal way, one ought to take it as the single, canonical assembly that goes by that name, and to consider the god described therein as the same god, seen from somewhat different angles at different times. Since I presume the god of the Bible is a human fiction, it is not surprising if, as his human inventors changed over time, some of the details and descriptions of his character vary. Even if he were a real god, being observed, this would likely be the case, given how parsimonious he is with real evidence.
 
.... I'm quite willing to concur that the god of the Bible, whatever he is called in various parts thereof, is a monstrous sadist who torments people (which we can presume absent other evidence, he enjoys at some level), and that the only way the gospel stories come close to making sense is, as you appear to suggest, as a plan whereby the passive-aggressive god induces curses in order to exact punishment and repentance, a circularity in which he guarantees that the people he created will end up forsaking him so he can punish them. A jealous god who demands not only obedience but ritual and worship, and as in the case of Job, and by some readings Abraham and Isaac, is so insecure that he can't just take it as it comes but must test it in the cruelest ways possible.

What I dispute is whether this constitutes what should be called human sacrifice in the religious sense ....


Your argument has been thoroughly riven over and over by one fact given in this post... repeated multiple times... as explained AGAIN in this post... and this post.

Not to mention the additional facts given in this post and this post and this post.

I made this post to rebut YOUR wrong argument about Jesus which you (and others) kept on repeating over and over... here and here and here... and the others' here and here and here and here and here and here and here.

Subsequently, I started a separate THREAD so as to be able to continue discussing how your arguments (and others') about Jesus fail (which y'all kept repeating) without further derailing this thread which is NOT about Jesus but rather about 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 being irrefragable proofs for YHWH being a human sacrifice demanding and commanding and accepting and enjoying monster.

So for further wrong arguments about Jesus not being a human sacrifice please go to the thread which shows in details how wrong your (and others') arguments about Jesus are. And please let this thread be about 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 and how they are a clinching proof for YHWH being a human sacrifice demanding and commanding and accepting and enjoying sadist.... as the OP indicated.... and further definitively proven in this post and this post.
 
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It's worth noting that Ephesians is one of the epistles that many academic scholars consider to be pseudepigraphical.
 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

The zombified ill-begotten slave-raping Founding Fathers demand and love human sacrifice!
 
Why don't you discuss that in the thread about Jesus being a Zombified human sacrifice to YHWH and ill begotten by YHWH so as to be sacrificed to YHWH in order to appease YHWH... this one is about 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 being irrefragable proofs for YHWH being a monstrous sadist who wreaks CURSES to torment people and then demands human sacrifice to stop doing that... and accepts the human sacrifice and is appeased by it and stops tormenting his victims.

As proven in this post and this one.

The OP has already been debunked and its supporting arguments are semi-hallucinatory. Your Ipse Dixit assertions to the contrary are dull.
 
I hope it's not too far beyond the permissible to observe that the difference between proof and assertion is wider for some than for others.


The above observation bares no truth and does not logically pass muster because proofs and facts and citations, definitively and rationally, always and invariably rend to shreds fallacious bare assertion and ipse dixit sophistry.
 
You really gotta admire the irony of accusing others of Ipse Dixit. I mean, just swish it around a bit and savor the nuances.
 

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