Christianity is a grotesque blight!

I think Bruto succinctly sums up why the orthodox (note lower case spelling) Christian interpretation of Jesus rules him out as the sort of blood sacrifice posited in the OP. If anything, it was a symbolic sacrifice that involved God giving up a weekend.
 
As it seems the fashion here to take arguments personally, I would suggest that, although it is certainly within guidelines to attribute contradictions to a failure to comprehend your statements, or to a failure to appreciate them, as might even an admonition to re-read what was written, attributing them to a failure to read them at all borders on a personal insult to those trying, however feeble one might find our attempts, to carry on a discussion.
 

A jolly welcoming back to the discussion is now somehow a breach of the MA?

Ok. Regarding your OP: the bible mentions human sacrifice to God a few times. One can take this literally, or figuratively. Since no one here takes much of the bible literally at all, we can probably dispense with the literal interpretation. What does that leave us with? Should you choose to respond, please do so using original thoughts. You will lose points for requoting or reposting.
 
YHWH engineered a CURSE ... and told the leaders how to remove the curse by giving him human sacrifice... which he accepted and by which he was appeased and consequently removed the curse.
Wrong. The punishments for original sin were never removed.

And God didn't demand human sacrifice. It was more like Jesus saying "Seriously Dad, if you don't you don't lighten up on these silly rules I'll kill myself!". And God thinking "You're not serious...".

What was a father to do? When your only son has a propensity for self-harm if he doesn't get his way. Sure He could just keep resurrecting him, but there were side-effects....
 
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Wrong. The punishments for original sin were never removed.

And God didn't demand human sacrifice. It was more like Jesus saying "Seriously Dad, if you don't you don't lighten up on these silly rules I'll kill myself!". And God thinking "You're not serious...".

What was a father to do? When your only son has a propensity for self-harm if he doesn't get his way. Sure He could just keep resurrecting him, but there were side-effects....


Yet again...

... start a thread about that and let's discuss it...

This thread is about HUMAN SACRIFICE... and how YHWH demanded and commanded and accepted and was appeased by it... AND... more specifically about 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 as irrefragable proof for that.
 
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Ok. Regarding your OP: the bible mentions human sacrifice to God a few times. One can take this literally, or figuratively. Since no one here takes much of the bible literally at all, we can probably dispense with the literal interpretation. What does that leave us with?...


Do atheists "take" the Buybull at all let alone literally or figuratively???

Please explain how an atheist who thinks the buybull is a pile of lies "takes" those lies figuratively?

Also please exegete or even eisegete how does this figurative "taking" reflect upon the fairy tales as told in the text as is written down in 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7... and more specifically how this figurative "taking" can rebut the OP's thesis.... namely...

...

I think the following verses [2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7] are impossible to refute as an airtight clinching case for YHWH being a demander and accepter and enjoyer of human blood sacrifice.

...
I am, nevertheless, intrigued what agnostics and secular-theists and even atheists might be able to concoct in rebuttal to these verses being an impossible to thwart proof that YHWH is a blood sacrifice demander and accepter and enjoyer.
 
Have you read Hyperion? Dan Simmons did this argument way better.

I'm not going to summarize Simmons' argument. I wouldn't do it justice, and besides, I don't really need to.

...
3a. Especially when compared (unfairly, perhaps) to a great work of literature that also includes the same basic argument. And also does a much better job of evoking the horror of zombie resurrection.


I bought Hyperion as an audio book from Audible and listened to it.

Nowhere does it mention YHWH or Yahweh or David or Saul or his 7 grandchildren nor Joshua or Achan or Palestine or Israel or Gibeonites.

So I am quite bewildered by your above two posts... and how they can be relevant in any way whatsoever to the OP.... and more specifically when you say that Hyperion "includes the same basic argument"...

It does not whatsoever... basic or otherwise... not even close...

The OP is about 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 where YHWH "engineered" CURSES that caused his chosen people strife and misery and when the people asked him why... he demanded expiation which constituted innocent humans being slaughtered BEFORE HIM to appease him... and YHWH accepted the human sacrifices and was appeased by them and lifted the CURSES he put on his chosen people.

As hard as I could... I did not find any inclusion in Hyperion that is in any way possible by any literal or figurative taking, the same basic argument.

If I am wrong then you need to cite anything that I might have missed... but I did not miss anything... you are wrong.
 
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Do atheists "take" the Buybull at all let alone literally or figuratively???

Yes. Well, maybe. Since you keep using meaningless cutsie-poo terms like "Buybull", no one can be quite sure what you mean, as you have been unreliable and inconsistent with what you mean even by "Bible". Sometimes you mean only the Torah, sometimes the combined Old and New Testaments. Would you mind using words that have agreed on meanings in English? Thanks in advance.

Please explain how an atheist who thinks the buybull is a pile of lies "takes" those lies figuratively?

As discussed, "Buybull" doesn't mean anything, and atheists are not definitionally someone who thinks anything is necessarily a pile of lies. Please consult an English language translator, if necessary.

Also please exegete or even eisegete how does this figurative "taking" reflect upon the fairy tales as told in the text as is written down in 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7... and more specifically how this figurative "taking" can rebut the OP's thesis.... namely...

Again, your questions have no meaning, not the least of which is that the OP has no thesis. It requires equivocation to an obnoxious degree to make any sense of it. Could you rephrase without using words that have no objective meanings?

ETA: oh, and you lost a lot of points for requoting and reposting yourself. Have you noticed that you demand everyone follow your instructions to the letter? Why do you declare yourself exempt from the same courtesy?
 
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Do atheists "take" the Buybull at all let alone literally or figuratively???
Define "take". Seriously, you need to explain what you mean by this. Does it mean "acknowledge the existence of"? One can, after all, regard the Bible as a collection of ancient superstitions and largely invented historical claims and still discuss what's written in it and believed by its followers, much as one can discuss the claims of Scientology without believing in engrams or Emperor Xenu.

Please explain how an atheist who thinks the buybull is a pile of lies "takes" those lies figuratively?
First, just because someone writes something that isn't factually true it doesn't mean they're lying.

Second, the word "figuratively" means departing from literal meaning. So one can very easily take anything from the Bible as figurative by concluding that the author of the passage in question meant it metaphorically, rather than literally.
 
Yet again...
You claimed that the crucifixion of Jesus was an example of human sacrifice. If you asked the people who did it (the Romans) they would not agree. He was executed for being a troublemaker.

And God neither demanded nor wanted it.

So you are dead wrong. This thread is about your incorrect notions of human sacrifice in the Bible.
 
So according to your above definition Jesus' farcical melodrama was not a sacrifice either... just another execution of an imbecilic pathetic cultist.

I wonder how many Christians would agree with you there? I'll bet that they will go through all sorts of mental contortions and wily twists of language in order to REDFEINE English words their own way so as to make Jesus' pointless melodrama still be a sacrifice but also at the same time carry on absolving his deadbeat sky daddy of being a human sacrifice loving, demanding and accepting monster.


- Jesus is a character in the New Testament.

- The name YHWH does not appear in any known manuscript version of the New Testament.

Perhaps more importantly, the OT and NT narratives originated in different cultures millennia apart.

Therefore Jesus is not relevant to the question of YHWH's attitude toward human sacrifice. In other words, your post is off topic.
 
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- Jesus is a character in the New Testament.

- The name YHWH does not appear in any known manuscript version of the New Testament.

Perhaps more importantly, the OT and NT narratives originated in different cultures millennia apart.

Therefore Jesus is not relevant to the question of YHWH's attitude toward human sacrifice. In other words, your post is off topic.


:sdl: Nope!!!

You must have not noticed this bit from the OP...

I am always quite amazed at apologetics for the Buybull containing clear and definitive proofs that YHWH demanded and accepted and got appeased by human sacrifice.

The ones who bewilder me most are the Christian apologists... given that the whole of the New Tall tales' theology is nothing but a grotesque and sordid human blood sacrifice with Zombification to boot.

But what also puzzles me is the poor quality of polemicists' proofs for YHWH's appetite for human sacrifice.
...


ETA: Are you aware that Christianity depends on the Tanakh and quotes from it and Jesus in the New Tall tales talks about the God Of Israel and Abraham and Moses and Elijah... and he calls that god his father???

Not to mention that the New Tall tales misquotes and misconstrues and twists oodles of verses from the Buybull as "prophecies" they contort as proving their Zombified ill begotten human sacrifice ... whose ill begetter is alleged to be YHWH.

Also the Christian scriptures in addition to the New Tall tales also PREPENDS a version of the Buybull... and together they call that their scriptures.
 
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Do atheists "take" the Buybull at all let alone literally or figuratively???...


Define "take". Seriously, you need to explain what you mean by this.


I suggest you ask the poster of the post below.... I was quoting the word from that post.

...the bible mentions human sacrifice to God a few times. One can take this literally, or figuratively. Since no one here takes much of the bible literally at all, we can probably dispense with the literal interpretation. What does that leave us with? ...
 
I suggest you ask the poster of the post below.... I was quoting the word from that post.

My post was in a conventional English language usage, such as when I use words like Bible or zombie, and if someone asks for clarification, I give it quickly and clearly. The same cannot be said for your arguments.
 
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- Jesus is a character in the New Testament.

- The name YHWH does not appear in any known manuscript version of the New Testament.

Perhaps more importantly, the OT and NT narratives originated in different cultures millennia apart.

Therefore Jesus is not relevant to the question of YHWH's human sacrifice. In other words, your post is off topic.
With respect, despite legitimate questions regarding authorship, time of writing, and the naming convention, it is presumed in the Bible itself to be the same god. If you stipulate that Jesus existed and spoke as the Bible states, he is on record as accepting the continuity, explicitly affirming the law and the prophets as still applying. The episode of the money changers reminds us that sacrifice was also still practiced among the Jews, of whom Jesus was one, and as I recall his issue there was not with the practice of sacrifice but with the profiteering.

Interpretive reading of the New Testament also, I think, suggests that Jesus (or the character represented as Jesus) was well versed in the Hebrew scriptures and general practices, his parables and other statements echoing (if often with a twist) the form and content of those that went before.

I do not think this makes a material difference in the question of what constitutes a sacrifice, or more importantly the suggestion that Jesus was sacrificed to whatever name the authors of the New Testament chose to use for their god.

But in this case I do not think Leumas is incorrect to conflate the two testaments as Christian doctrine generally does. We can still argue about what constitutes a sacrifice and who did what to whom, but if, as it appears, Leumas is basing his arguments on a literal reading of the canonical text, then that literal reading must, I think, consider both testaments as parts of the same Bible concerning the same presumed god.
 
You claimed that the crucifixion of Jesus was an example of human sacrifice. If you asked the people who did it (the Romans) they would not agree. He was executed for being a troublemaker.

And God neither demanded nor wanted it.

So you are dead wrong. This thread is about your incorrect notions of human sacrifice in the Bible.


I would be very interested in discussing this novel (but totally wrong and utterly anti-christian) notion that Jesus was not the expiatory lamb for the sins of the world as stated by him and Paul and all over the New Tall tales.

  • John 1:29 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

So please start a new thread where we can do that... this thread is about how 2 Samuel 21 and Joshua 7 are irrefragable proofs for YHWH being a demander and commander and accepter and enjoyer of human sacrifice.
 
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... the suggestion that Jesus was sacrificed to whatever name the authors of the New Testament chose to use for their god....


Why don't you ask them....

  • Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
  • 1 Peter 1:18-19 Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
  • John 1:29 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
  • 1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
  • etc. etc. etc.

QED!!!
 
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