Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[Steve]

You haven't taken a good look at the human race have you?

I have spent nearly 69 years looking at them. For the most part I do not care for what I see. I associate with them on a personal level as much as I need to to keep myself comfortable, but no more.

 

[casebro]

Do mass murderers have siblings?

I've never heard anything like "... but his brothers are so nice."

I'm listening to Jordan Peterson about kids rough housing/ active play., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay1KVzVXbjc

They seem to think violent video games are cheap, easy replacements for violent play, jump to 11:00.

 

[dudalb]

They deserve to be removed from human society. That is a place that they do not belong. Imprisonment for life or execution are ways that real humans have determined these creatures will be dealt with. If that removed their human rights so be it.

This. Some people are simply mentally messed up beyond hope of being cured. They need to be seperated from society.
Which is why the 20 year max prison time some countries have is, IMHO, a bad idea.

 

[Steve]

This. Some people are simply mentally messed up beyond hope of being cured. They need to be seperated from society.
Which is why the 20 year max prison time some countries have is, IMHO, a bad idea.

I live in one of those 20 year countries, and I agree with you.

 

[dudalb]

Well there's no point discussing the firearms part because the United States decided years ago that "my" right to bear arms completely trumps "your" right not to be shot and that you're unpatriotic and urinating on the graves of The Founding Fathers to suggest otherwise.

I think there is reasonabel point between an almost total ban on all firearms and allowing just about anybody access to assualt weapons.

 

[dudalb]

I live in one of those 20 year countries, and I agree with you.

Thought Ihave noted that most of those 29 year countries seem to have a way to have certain people released quickly put into mental insituions of some type.

 

[dudalb]

Imprisonment and execution are, regardless of your opinion of the death penalty, imposed as a result of due legal process - a human right under Articles 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which the United States is a signatory. If you deny them these Articles, you also deny them Article 5, which prevents torture and degrading or inhuman treatment, Article 2, which guarantees freedom from discrimination, and Article 4, which prevents slavery.

So great! Now that you've declared a person nonhuman, you have your perfect little sentient toy that you can keep, chain, torture and kill at your whim without any regard for those pesky annoyances like conscience.

If you are okay with this then I'd say that you are the one being inhuman. There's a reason the Universal Declaration forms a cornerstone of human rights law all over the world.



ALL human beings. All. No exceptions.

Nice rant. Too bad reality is different; some people need to be permanely isolated from society. This is the real world, guy.
And, yeah, I zero sympathy for people who delibertly murder kids the way the person in Nashville did. Throw her in an prison/mental hostipal for the criminally insane and throw the key away.
if that conflicts with a well intentioned but hopelessly unrealistic declaration, so be it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I think there is reasonabel point between an almost total ban on all firearms and allowing just about anybody access to assualt weapons.

Agreed. I mean, I own a car. I had to take an education course, then a test to prove I knew how to drive it safely. I have to get it inspected regularly. I have to buy insurance for it, and prove that I have insurance on it. I have to have a license, and renew it. I have to pay taxes on it. I'm not allowed to drive it in certain situations. I have to obey a lot of rules when I do drive it. And there's a whole set of laws on what happens if I make mistakes and/or hurt anybody driving.

None of those requirements infringes my right to own a car and drive. I don't see why owning a gun has to entail less fuss than owning a car.

 

[dudalb]

Agreed. I mean, I own a car. I had to take an education course, then a test to prove I knew how to drive it safely. I have to get it inspected regularly. I have to buy insurance for it, and prove that I have insurance on it. I have to have a license, and renew it. I have to pay taxes on it. I'm not allowed to drive it in certain situations. I have to obey a lot of rules when I do drive it. And there's a whole set of laws on what happens if I make mistakes and/or hurt anybody driving.

None of those requirements infringes my right to own a car and drive. I don't see why owning a gun has to entail less fuss than owning a car.

Problem is there are people out there who, quite literally don's see the difference between a AR15 of AK47 and a bolt action hunting/target rifle.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Problem is there are people out there who, quite literally don's see the difference between a AR15 of AK47 and a bolt action hunting/target rifle.

If the kids that got shot knew the difference between a AR15 of AK47 and a bolt action hunting/target rifle, would they be any less dead now?

 

[casebro]

Agreed. I mean, I own a car. I had to take an education course, then a test to prove I knew how to drive it safely. I have to get it inspected regularly. I have to buy insurance for it, and prove that I have insurance on it. I have to have a license, and renew it. I have to pay taxes on it. I'm not allowed to drive it in certain situations. I have to obey a lot of rules when I do drive it. And there's a whole set of laws on what happens if I make mistakes and/or hurt anybody driving.

None of those requirements infringes my right to own a car and drive. I don't see why owning a gun has to entail less fuss than owning a car.

You have no "rights" to own a car. Tell me which article of the Constitution grants them?

But Yes, those are all infringements on your right to own a car, compared to not having those requirements.

 

[dudalb]

If the kids that got shot knew the difference between a AR15 of AK47 and a bolt action hunting/target rifle, would they be any less dead now?

You just proved my point about some people knowing nothing about guns.
I presume you want all guns banned, period.
Let;s put it this way: The UK has very strict gun laws, but ownership of a bolt action rifle is legal in the UK.

 

[TragicMonkey]

You have no "rights" to own a car. Tell me which article of the Constitution grants them?

I guess it's the bit that says any powers not enumerated therein for the feds devolves to the states, and each state I've lived in has had a whole department for motor vehicles, and different licensing requirements, and education requirements, and car inspections. And on top of that every state I've lived in granted business licenses to people to sell vehicles, and they had to meet requirements and follow laws, and pay taxes, and all that stuff, too. I'm pretty confident the states are aware of people driving cars, and owning cars, and selling cars, and they're not only okay with it they're positively involved in most of the process.

But Yes, those are all infringements on your right to own a car, compared to not having those requirements.

And having no requirements at all is "an infringement" compared to being paid to own a car, and getting free ice cream for driving a car, and being granted immunity to manslaughter laws while driving.

Having mandated responsibilities when exercising a right is not de facto an infringement. You have the right to vote but you may only vote once per election, and have to do it at a particular location, don't you? You have to meet residency requirements, and age requirements, and in some places lack a particular class of criminal conviction.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

You just proved my point about some people knowing nothing about guns.
I presume you want all guns banned, period.
Let;s put it this way: The UK has very strict gun laws, but ownership of a bolt action rifle is legal in the UK.

The other side of the coin is that in the US suggesting that maybe you should regulate gun ownership like in the EU = banning all guns.

Whereas you *can* own guns and even hunt if you want to here. You just need to prove you can use them responsibly and store them safely so ammo and gun are only combined when they are needed like at the hunt or the firing range.

 

[bruto]

Actually, insofar as a car is an article of property you probably do have a right to own one. What you don't have a right to do is to drive it in public spaces. The driving of a car in public spaces is a privilege, granted to specific persons (i.e. able to see, marginally literate, of a certain age) and the car one can drive in public spaces is controlled by safety rules, insurance, and so forth as well.

Obviously the second-amendment right is fraught with complication and interpretation and passionate advocacy, but it seems reasonable to wonder why, in this case, it is presumed not just to be the right to keep and bear arms, but to bear them in public spaces without regulation or control.

 

[The Don]

I think there is reasonabel point between an almost total ban on all firearms and allowing just about anybody access to assualt weapons.

Not enough people, and certainly not enough politicians, agree with you in the US to make a difference - or at least that's how it seems to me.

I'm less worried by the assault weapons than I am by the handguns (and the associated presumption from many that they are required for self defence) but that's almost certainly as a result of being brought up in a society (and a part of the country) where shotguns and rifles were comparatively common, but handguns were not.

 

[Ian Osborne]

You just proved my point about some people knowing nothing about guns.

And you missed mine completely. It isn't about the specific differences between certain firearms, it's about the ease at which firearms can get into the hands of the unstable.

I presume you want all guns banned, period.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but as has previously been suggested, why not treat them like cars? Pass an exam before you can have one, make sure they're serviced regularly, issue a license that could be withdrawn if they're misused, etc? What would a responsible gun owner have to fear from this?

Let;s put it this way: The UK has very strict gun laws...

And no school shootings since 1996.

 

[Bob001]

.....
Let;s put it this way: The UK has very strict gun laws, but ownership of a bolt action rifle is legal in the UK.

Under tight restrictions, which include licensing after police approval and proof of need. And self-defense is not considered a need. In no way comparable to the U.S.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/what-are-rules-firearms-licences-uk

It's actually easier to own a full-auto submachine gun in the U.S.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/30/politics/fact-check-biden-flamethrowers-machine-guns/index.html

 

[tyr_13]

Yes of course he is, or you're completely gullible. Here's the graphic that is going around. Notice anything odd, like lots of covered over identifiers? It's not even a good fake.

Sure, it would have to be fake that the closed Facebook group of the show that has been repeatedly suspended from two different platforms for bigotry towards trans people posted that.

Covering the specific identities is required in many places to stay inside the rules on doxing. Yes, it also makes it easier to fake things. Saying this makes it a 'not even good fake' while even worse things are being posted is just silly though. Check out Don Jr and Bobert et al.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Reports say that the shooter entered through an unlocked side door. I guess we know what the deflection from the real issue will be..

No, there's video of her shooting up the glass door to get in.