Cont: Transwomen are not women - part XI

[katy_did]

I find LJ’s disregard for the feelings of women in non-elite sports interesting. Some of these women have been training for years in to compete in these “minor” sports. They are then beaten by transwomen who have gone through male puberty and have unfair physical advantages.

I would like to ask LondonJohn why the feelings of winning transwomen athletes trump those of beaten natal women. Why should these “victories” be celebrated and fourth placed women told they just have to put up with it?.

It's an interesting division into sports that matter and sports that don't, isn't it. Never mind that those "minor" sports are no doubt very important to the women taking part in them. They have to take second place to the transwomen who must at all costs be affirmed, fairness and competitiveness be damned.

I did see yesterday that, following the announcement from World Athletics, the English Schools Athletic Association restated its policy that their girls events are reserved for biological females. I hope that with more and more sports bodies making the decision to exclude transwomen from women's sports at the top level, this will increasingly become the norm at the lower levels too.

 

[katy_did]

Kellie-Jay Keen isn't a lesbian as far as I know - she has a husband and three children.

Ah ok, thanks! I guess her crime then is one of "promoting" lesbianism!

 

[katy_did]

She had a disabled lesbian feminist speaking in Hobart.

Aha. A lesbian by association, then...

 

[The Atheist]

Yes yes etc.
You will love the Wellington event.

Nope. She put her tail between her legs and ran away. Left this afternoon. Wimped out on Welly.

I find it rabid and disgusting the treatment of this woman.

Get over yourself, mate. She got drowned out and some tomato soup thrown on her. Stephen Joyce copped a dildo in the face.

A big nothing.

Posey is a Poseur. She found a bandwagon and has had her 15 minutes of fame and can now **** off and cry about how nasty Kiwis are.

When it reaches the point that all three podium places in some women's competition that meets LondonJohn's criteria are biological males it will be ... quite funny actually.

Newsflash: That already happened, in the Rio Olympics, "Women's" 800m. All three podium positions were taken by men, denying the rightful winner, Canadian Melissa Bishop, a gold medal.

World Athletics has banned trans athletes; the wider Olympics have rules in place that will stop trans competing against women.

That avenue is closing fast.

Ah ok, thanks! I guess her crime then is one of "promoting" lesbianism!

No, her crime is promoting hate.

It's no coincidence that Nazi salutes were made by her supporters in Australia. They are far-right rabble that no actual woman would want to associate with. They didn't dare do that here.

I repeat, if you want to piss off trans women, do your homework and don't come to the city with the greatest number of fa'afafine on the planet.

Just desserts served, nice and cold.

 

[The Atheist]

And in case anyone thought the target of the speech was women, here are the few people who turned in support of Parker: https://twitter.com/LilySimpson1312/status/1639411740910956546/photo/1

Plenty of women in the crowd opposing her: https://twitter.com/shaneellall/status/1639386182995017728

 

[Samson]

Nope. She put her tail between her legs and ran away. Left this afternoon. Wimped out on Welly.




Get over yourself, mate. She got drowned out and some tomato soup thrown on her. Stephen Joyce copped a dildo in the face.

A big nothing.

Posey is a Poseur. She found a bandwagon and has had her 15 minutes of fame and can now **** off and cry about how nasty Kiwis are.



Newsflash: That already happened, in the Rio Olympics, "Women's" 800m. All three podium positions were taken by men, denying the rightful winner, Canadian Melissa Bishop, a gold medal.

World Athletics has banned trans athletes; the wider Olympics have rules in place that will stop trans competing against women.

That avenue is closing fast.



No, her crime is promoting hate.

It's no coincidence that Nazi salutes were made by her supporters in Australia. They are far-right rabble that no actual woman would want to associate with. They didn't dare do that here.

I repeat, if you want to piss off trans women, do your homework and don't come to the city with the greatest number of fa'afafine on the planet.

Just desserts served, nice and cold.

So trans women are women now?
You started the discussion by gainsaying that proposition.
But welcome back you old warrior for critical thought.

 

[Ziggurat]

What about when the people who worked there say something that doesn't fit into your particular agenda? You don't like that very much, do you?

(And, by the way, I'd recommend the Cass Review (and related reports) for a properly-balanced point of view regarding the Tavistock. By contrast, Barnes' book is largely agenda-driven and very self-selecting in the people featured in the book. I wonder how/why she found it so difficult to find a publisher?)

What does this have to do with the claim that puberty blockers are fully reversible? Nothing, as far as I can tell. This is all just a vague hand waving ad hom derail attempt.

 

[Samson]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12102934&postcount=1

Just checking back, The Atheist is welcoming men into women's changing rooms and jails.
However he is a man.

 

[katy_did]

No, her crime is promoting hate.

It's no coincidence that Nazi salutes were made by her supporters in Australia. They are far-right rabble that no actual woman would want to associate with. They didn't dare do that here.

I repeat, if you want to piss off trans women, do your homework and don't come to the city with the greatest number of fa'afafine on the planet.

Just desserts served, nice and cold.

I mean, first of all I was talking about her "crime" from the perspective of the far-right, and I really don't think that's their problem with her.

Second, any quotes showing how she's "promoting hate"? Just curious as all I'm seeing are people claiming guilt by association - possibly not the wisest tactic after the disgraceful mob in Auckland - rather than examples of things she herself has said.

Kind of ironic that the only violence has come not from Keen's group, nor even from the actual Nazis, but from the "Be kind" mob. I can only imagine the uproar if the situation were reversed.

 

[d4m10n]

Kind of ironic that the only violence has come not from Keen's group, nor even from the actual Nazis, but from the "Be kind" mob. I can only imagine the uproar if the situation were reversed.

In the critical social justice mindset, words are violence and violence justifiable to oppose those words.

 

[d4m10n]

Not merely justifiable, but worthy of celebration.

 

[The Atheist]

So trans women are women now?

Nope, and if you look at my posts, you'll see I am still calling them trans women.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12102934&postcount=1

Just checking back, The Atheist is welcoming men into women's changing rooms and jails.
However he is a man.

In the case of actual trans women, that's true. I'd have been perfectly happy to let my daughter change in rooms with trans women like Georgina Beyer, Chelsea Manning and Andreja Pejic in them.

The problem is, some men are using the ruse of being trans as a means of preying on women.

That would be men, not trans women at fault.

 

[The Atheist]

I mean, first of all I was talking about her "crime" from the perspective of the far-right, and I really don't think that's their problem with her.

My mistake.

Second, any quotes showing how she's "promoting hate"?

I previously read some specific statements she'd made, but they're buried under a million pieces of news about the protest yesterday.

Kind of ironic that the only violence has come not from Keen's group, nor even from the actual Nazis, but from the "Be kind" mob. I can only imagine the uproar if the situation were reversed.

Yet again I'm seeing someone tipping a can of tomato soup over her as "violence".

Not buying it. She was in a position where any one of a thousand people could have slapped, punched or kicked her, and none did.

I will admit that any mob has the ability to turn ugly very quickly, and that's exactly why dickheads like her shouldn't be allowed to use public spaces for their rallies. It's exactly why we banned the Springboks from touring way back in 1974 - even in those dark ages it was obvious there would be civil unrest, and then we proved it in 1981.

Sometimes, pulling the rug out from under people is the right option.

 

[Samson]

Nope, and if you look at my posts, you'll see I am still calling them trans women.



In the case of actual trans women, that's true. I'd have been perfectly happy to let my daughter change in rooms with trans women like Georgina Beyer, Chelsea Manning and Andreja Pejic in them.

The problem is, some men are using the ruse of being trans as a means of preying on women.

That would be men, not trans women at fault.

New Zealand men have a strict right to use female bathrooms.
It is illegal to suggest to a young person they may be gay rather than trans gender.
Young people must be given hormones and puberty blockers if they request them.
And so on.
We have the most comprehensive laws promoting access to all spaces for men who identify as women, with no sanctions at all. It is illegal to ask any detail like surgical procedures undergone.
There is just one exception, men who have been convicted of sex offending against women cannot ask to be in a female prison, but all others have the absolute right.

Posie Parker was trying to explain these laws to New Zealanders and most women with any sense would have listened.

 

[Samson]

Anyone who would like a lengthy eye witness account by a woman who wished to speak, try this.
It is far far worse than I imagined.

https://aboldwoman.substack.com/p/trans-activists-make-women-terrified

 

[Ziggurat]

The problem is, some men are using the ruse of being trans as a means of preying on women.

That would be men, not trans women at fault.

How do you tell them apart?

 

[Ziggurat]

Yet again I'm seeing someone tipping a can of tomato soup over her as "violence".

Not buying it. She was in a position where any one of a thousand people could have slapped, punched or kicked her, and none did.

I don't know what your definition of "violence" is, nor do I particularly care, but at least in the US, that meets the legal definition of assault. Your dismissal of assault as unimportant is disturbing.

I will admit that any mob has the ability to turn ugly very quickly,

Quite so. Which is one of the reasons that tolerating assault as not a big deal because it didn't produce injury is a very, very bad idea. It's a bright red line that shouldn't be crossed, because once you cross it, further escalation and harm become much more likely.

and that's exactly why dickheads like her shouldn't be allowed to use public spaces for their rallies.

No. There's a reason why a "heckler's veto" is considered a bad thing. It's not people speaking that we shouldn't tolerate, it's people committing assault.

 

[Samson]

Nope, and if you look at my posts, you'll see I am still calling them trans women.



In the case of actual trans women, that's true. I'd have been perfectly happy to let my daughter change in rooms with trans women like Georgina Beyer, Chelsea Manning and Andreja Pejic in them.

The problem is, some men are using the ruse of being trans as a means of preying on women.

That would be men, not trans women at fault.

I don't know what your definition of "violence" is, nor do I particularly care, but at least in the US, that meets the legal definition of assault. Your dismissal of assault as unimportant is disturbing.



Quite so. Which is one of the reasons that tolerating assault as not a big deal because it didn't produce injury is a very, very bad idea. It's a bright red line that shouldn't be crossed, because once you cross it, further escalation and harm become much more likely.



No. There's a reason why a "heckler's veto" is considered a bad thing. It's not people speaking that we shouldn't tolerate, it's people committing assault.

The person is an intact male with a gay partner, and I understand has been arrested. Here is his profile.

https://www.jwire.com.au/transgender-wedding-in-new-zealand/

As a man assaulting woman he may have trouble getting housed in a female prison, but a discharge without conviction would be my bet.

Eta
As an intact male assaulting a woman I see a reason to not accord the desired pronoun, other views may differ.

 

[Robin]

The person is an intact male with a gay partner, and I understand has been arrested. Here is his profile.

https://www.jwire.com.au/transgender-wedding-in-new-zealand/

As a man assaulting woman he may have trouble getting housed in a female prison, but a discharge without conviction would be my bet.

Eta
As an intact male assaulting a woman I see a reason to not accord the desired pronoun, other views may differ.

She is intersex and I can see nothing that states that her husband is gay.

The story says that his family was unhappy with the engagement and threatened to have him committed for being gay. That does not mean he is gay.

 

[Samson]

She is intersex and I can see nothing that states that her partner is gay.

The story says that his family was unhappy with the engagement and threatened to have him committed for being gay. That does not mean he is gay.

Is intersex the term for someone who identifies as female but is an intact male?
Intersex is not stated in the profile.
It is from 2015, I know nothing further.