Fox News knew they were lying about election

[Ryan O'Dine]

If the Prince of Lies himself came to Earth, he'd have no problem raising a massive army of "Sell my soul? Where do I sign!" I can't imagine poor "Turn the other cheek, love thy enemy" Jesus raising nearly as fanatical an army. He'll have to pull out some of that extra shizzle magic if he expects to win.

 

[Stacyhs]

If the Prince of Lies himself came to Earth, he'd have no problem raising a massive army of "Sell my soul? Where do I sign!" I can't imagine poor "Turn the other cheek, love thy enemy" Jesus raising nearly as fanatical an army. He'll have to pull out some of that extra shizzle magic if he expects to win.

About 74 million people are already convinced that the Prince of Lies is really the Chosen One.

 

[Orphia Nay]

About 74 million people are already convinced that the Prince of Lies is really the Chosen One.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Just because someone votes non-Democrat doesn't mean they're a Q Nut.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not a republican, I'm Australian, and I just don't think hyperbole is helpful.)

 

[Stacyhs]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. Just because someone votes non-Democrat doesn't mean they're a Q Nut.

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not a republican, I'm Australian, and I just don't think hyperbole is helpful.)

It was sarcasm.

 

[Orphia Nay]

It was sarcasm.

Maybe that's what was intended but it doesn't read as actual sarcasm.

Anyway, now Smartmatic, another voting machine company, have lodged a 2.7 billion lawsuit against Fox. Yay.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/fox-n...suit-over-election-rigging-claims-2023-02-14/

 

[Stacyhs]

Maybe that's what was intended but it doesn't read as actual sarcasm.

I'd say it's not how you read it.

Anyway, now Smartmatic, another voting machine company, have lodged a 2.7 billion lawsuit against Fox. Yay.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/fox-n...suit-over-election-rigging-claims-2023-02-14/

Yea!

 

[wareyin]

I, for one, am a whole lot more concerned that 73 million people watched the **** show Trump put on for 4 years and chose to vote for him again, than I am that someone slightly exaggerated the devotion Trump cultists have for him. If anything, assuming that anyone who voted for Trump was merely voting "not Democrat" is the distortion of motives.

 

[gnome]

I, for one, am a whole lot more concerned that 73 million people watched the **** show Trump put on for 4 years and chose to vote for him again, than I am that someone slightly exaggerated the devotion Trump cultists have for him. If anything, assuming that anyone who voted for Trump was merely voting "not Democrat" is the distortion of motives.

It's not a distortion of motives though, it's the payoff of Republican marketing for decades that there's nothing worse than having a Democrat in office: that literally a crook, a fascist, or the devil himself would be better.

 

[wareyin]

It's not a distortion of motives though, it's the payoff of Republican marketing for decades that there's nothing worse than having a Democrat in office: that literally a crook, a fascist, or the devil himself would be better.

I know several lifelong Republican voters who didn't vote for Trump. They either voted Biden or simply didn't vote for the Presidential ticket. We have conservative posters here who claim they did the same.

You can simply not vote for either party or vote for a third party if you can't vote for a Dem. Lots of Biden votes were actually votes against Trump instead. But it simply doesn't work the other way. Votes for Trump were not protest, or anti-Dem votes. They were virtually all pro Trump votes.

 

[a_unique_person]

Fox News told two women to take the fall for the male stars.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ony-abby-grossberg?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

One was Bartiromo and the other was a Carlson producer.

Then Fox tried to cover that up with a court order.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Fox News told two women to take the fall for the male stars.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ony-abby-grossberg?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

One was Bartiromo and the other was a Carlson producer.

Then Fox tried to cover that up with a court order.

I read that report as "Fox execs, and especially the 'talent', are a bunch of privileged, immature, sexist prats who got caught out and are trying desperately to cover up all the porn, empty pizza boxes and bongs."

 

[Stacyhs]

Fox News told two women to take the fall for the male stars.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ony-abby-grossberg?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

One was Bartiromo and the other was a Carlson producer.

Then Fox tried to cover that up with a court order.

I believe Grossberg's allegations more likely happened than not.

 

[Aridas]

Additionally, there is no evidence that any of those had a significant effect on voter turnout. In fact, GA's 2022 elections had a record turnout.

Because of backlash to how ham-handed the efforts were. Hardly the only case where the GOP was caught being scumbags (often in legal ways), the outrage at their efforts produced the opposite of the intended effect, and then this line of gaslighting gets trotted out.

You're referring to the Voter ID law which never went into effect so had no influence on any election.

It's an example of obvious intent, though, and how brazen the Republicans are willing to be now, after having been working to do things a bit less obviously for a long time now.

Twenty people were arrested: "Judges dismissed four cases because of jurisdictional issues that have been cleared up by another new law. One defendant accepted a plea deal and a jury found another guilty of lying on his voter registration form, a felony, but not of illegally voting." The remaining people who were arrested had their charges dropped.

Don't get me wrong; I know what Republicans are trying to do when it comes to their fearmongering "election fraud" nonsense reactive voting laws. But so far, at least, their efforts have been largely ineffective and have not impacted our elections being "free and fair" which was Gulliver Foyle's point. That is what I'm referring to when I said I disagreed.

By the look of it, the black vote in Florida dropped dramatically in 2022. Not going to bother delving deeper there because trying to present ironclad proof is more likely to be both largely OT and rather a pointless endeavor in this case. There's also the matter of the multiple states allowed to use officially illegal because of racial gerrymandering maps... "Free and fair" is notably undermined by such. People can vote in a supposedly "free and fair" manner, sure, but their votes just matter a heck of a lot less. Lots more can be said, but this is probably already too far in tangent territory.

 

[Orphia Nay]

From Tuesday's hearings:

But Fox’s attorney argued that the accuracy of the allegations isn’t the main issue.

“What matters is whether the press accurately reports the allegations, not whether the underlying allegations are true or false,” said Murphy, adding that the distinction between a factual statement and an opinion is also important.

She also contended there’s no evidence that Fox Corp. showed any malice — a key legal standard in libel cases — toward Dominion, because there is no evidence that any corporate executives were directly responsible in deciding to air the alleged defamatory statements.

However, as Murphy led the judge through a list of Fox broadcasts, it became clear that programs of former Fox host Lou Dobbs, aired shortly after the 2020 election, could be an issue for the network.

“There seems to be a Dobbs problem,” [Judge] Davis said.
Murphy countered that Dobbs was “an opinion host” who cited Dominion’s denials, but also acknowledged: “It’s abundantly clear that he believes all of these things.”

https://apnews.com/article/9f0b4ec94a19fa68c1205864fef277c5

 

[Norman Alexander]

Oh, they are going for the "It's not illegal if you believe it" gambit?

 

[wareyin]

Are you saying, then, that Republicans rigged the election to somehow give them MORE votes than they actually received as in fake ballots, voter fraud, etc? IOW; what they are accusing the Dems of having done?

No, I read that as what Gulliver Foyle was saying.

Gulliver Foyle specifically referred to the 2016 and 2020 elections which occurred before the new laws you mentioned. Additionally, there is no evidence that any of those had a significant effect on voter turnout. In fact, GA's 2022 elections had a record turnout.

1) I believe he was referring to 2020 specifically, and several of the laws I mentioned were passed before that election.
2) Republicans have been working to disenfranchise voters for a lot longer than the last 2 years. Gov Kemp, while he was Ga Sec of State and running for Ga Governor, purged hundreds of thousands of likely Democratic voters in the runup to his 2016 election for instance. I have family members who voted regularly and had not moved who had to re-register to vote, and GA doesn't have same day registration. Had they not checked their status well ahead of time, they would have been unable to vote in the 2016 election.
3) Just because the disenfranchisement efforts backfired does not make them not efforts to disenfranchise voters.

You're referring to the Voter ID law which never went into effect so had no influence on any election.

Do you honestly believe that well publicized efforts to scare voters away from voting has no influence on an election?

Twenty people were arrested: "Judges dismissed four cases because of jurisdictional issues that have been cleared up by another new law. One defendant accepted a plea deal and a jury found another guilty of lying on his voter registration form, a felony, but not of illegally voting." The remaining people who were arrested had their charges dropped.

Don't get me wrong; I know what Republicans are trying to do when it comes to their fearmongering "election fraud" nonsense reactive voting laws. But so far, at least, their efforts have been largely ineffective and have not impacted our elections being "free and fair" which was Gulliver Foyle's point. That is what I'm referring to when I said I disagreed.

In addition to the gerrymandering that Aridas touched on, several Republican strongholds have been working for years to make it harder for minorities, who tend to vote Democratic, to vote. In 2018, Alabama closed up to a quarter of polling places in Democratic strongholds. The changes to GA polling places and hours were in effect before the 2020 election. Hell, the entire Voter ID push was simply to make it harder for minorities and students to vote, both Democratic leaning groups.

These tactics have been pushed so hard because they work.

 

[catsmate]

It's comforting to think so, but I actually think it's very difficult to perform large-scale election fraud of the kind that reports false counts. If Republicans had attempted it, I think they would have been caught.

At a certain point it requires such a broad-based conspiracy that it's only plausible if there's enough megafans that the person could have won without cheating.

Despite the accusations flying, I think both sides know that the best time to rig the election is before the polls even open, through mostly legal means.

Fraud may be difficult, on any useful scale, but making voting difficult for those who don't vote Republican is a widely-used tactic; restrict access to the polls, disenfranchise those convicted of a crime et cetera.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Are you saying, then, that Republicans rigged the election to somehow give them MORE votes than they actually received as in fake ballots, voter fraud, etc? IOW; what they are accusing the Dems of having done?

No, I read that as what Gulliver Foyle was saying.

That's what I meant; that you think that GF was saying the Repubs did what they have accused the Dems of doing, whereas I interpreted as his saying that " Republicans rigged the elections in 2016 and 2020 in their favor by disenfranchising a significant number voters." GF's post could be interpreted either way. Perhaps he could clarify that for us.

1) I believe he was referring to 2020 specifically, and several of the laws I mentioned were passed before that election.

He may have been but he did say 2016 and 2020.

1) I several of the laws I mentioned were passed before that election.

Not true of any of the laws you mentioned:

See: GA's cutbacks on voting times and locations in Democratic strongholds, plus their cracking down on giving food or water to those waiting in the long lines that those cutbacks caused.

The laws you're referring to where post Nov. 2020 election.

The "Election Integrity Law", to which you're referring, was passed in March 2021

See also: NC's voting laws which were struck down by a Judge for targeting black voters with "surgical precision".

That 2013 law was struck down by a federal appeals court in July 2016, so before the Nov. 2016 election. Therefore, as I said, it had no effect on the election.

NC passed another voter ID law in 2018, but it, too, was struck down and was blocked from taking effect before the 2020 election.

See aso: FL governor DeSantis arresting people who his government told they could legally cast a vote in order to scare other legal voters away from voting.

Again, AFTER the 2020 election. No one was arrested by DeSantis' "election police' until Aug. 2022.

2) Republicans have been working to disenfranchise voters for a lot longer than the last 2 years. Gov Kemp, while he was Ga Sec of State and running for Ga Governor, purged hundreds of thousands of likely Democratic voters in the runup to his 2016 election for instance. I have family members who voted regularly and had not moved who had to re-register to vote, and GA doesn't have same day registration. Had they not checked their status well ahead of time, they would have been unable to vote in the 2016 election.

I've never disputed that. But GF's claim was specifically about the 2016 and 2020 elections. I repeat: my posts were specifically about those two elections.

3) Just because the disenfranchisement efforts backfired does not make them not efforts to disenfranchise voters.

I agree...which is why I never claimed that.

Do you honestly believe that well publicized efforts to scare voters away from voting has no influence on an election?

No, I don't. But once again: I never made that claim. I am referring specifically to Gulliver Foyle's post about the 2016 and 2020 elections. Once you understand that, maybe you'll stop assuming things.

In addition to the gerrymandering that Aridas touched on, several Republican strongholds have been working for years to make it harder for minorities, who tend to vote Democratic, to vote. In 2018, Alabama closed up to a quarter of polling places in Democratic strongholds.

Again, I've never denied that. You seem to think that I am denying these attempts by the GOP to suppress voting in mostly Democratic areas. I'm not. I suggest you stop assuming things I've never said.

The changes to GA polling places and hours were in effect before the 2020 election. Hell, the entire Voter ID push was simply to make it harder for minorities and students to vote, both Democratic leaning groups.

As I've already cited, that is not true. Please read the links I previously provided.

These tactics have been pushed so hard because they work.

Yes, these tactics do work, but they did not work in the cases you specifically claimed because they were not in effect in GA for the 2016 or 2020 elections as I've proved.
Now, will you please look at what I've actually written and not what you think I've written?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

It's comforting to think so, but I actually think it's very difficult to perform large-scale election fraud of the kind that reports false counts. If Republicans had attempted it, I think they would have been caught.

At a certain point it requires such a broad-based conspiracy that it's only plausible if there's enough megafans that the person could have won without cheating.

Despite the accusations flying, I think both sides know that the best time to rig the election is before the polls even open, through mostly legal means.

They're aleady doing it. In 2016 10 million US citizens were illegally disenfranchised in red states, the figure in 2020 was 8.5 million. And then factor in the three states in 2016 that had vote counting irregularities so bad that they were legally obliged to recount the votes, only they burnt the ballots as they were announcing the "results", all of which were republican ruled states who coul only receive the votes of a small minority of voters. Because there's no oversight and effectively no rules regarding elections in US it'sincredibly easy to fix them.

The only surprise is that no republican has yet gotten Enver Hoxha level results in a red state.

 

[wareyin]

That 2013 law was struck down by a federal appeals court in July 2016, so before the Nov. 2016 election. Therefore, as I said, it had no effect on the election.

NC passed another voter ID law in 2018, but it, too, was struck down and was blocked from taking effect before the 2020 election.

You continue to insist that well publicized voter intimidation tactics such as these laws have "no effect" on elections, in the face of all logic, reason, and evidence. Oh, gee, the law was blocked, so absolutely no one could have thought it still applied, been worried about it anyway, or have been dissuaded from voting due to the laws? Give me a break.

Yes, these tactics do work, but they did not work in the cases you specifically claimed because they were not in effect in GA for the 2016 or 2020 elections as I've proved.
Now, will you please look at what I've actually written and not what you think I've written?

By your own sources, these tactics have been in play long before the 2016 election and are still being implemented today. Is there some reason you're assuming this magical window where they had effects right up until Nov 2016, then stopped and waited until Dec of 2020 to start working again?