Drag Shows!!

[Thermal]

How refreshingly direct.

Yeah, when the exacto knife isn't doing the job, ya break out the sledgehammer.

You're being unreasonable. Sorry but you deserve the same kind of directness that you have demonstrated.

Please don't apologize for bluntness. I've been pleading for it.

It is unreasonable to demand clarity in issues of gender and sexuality, and yes, they are related. It is not a clear field. Things don't go neatly into pigeonholes. Different people are different and talk about different things differently.

So you've got a choice. Either you continue to unreasonably demand clarity in a distinctly unclear field, or you embrace unclarity and celebrate diversity.

I choose the latter.

Great. But we're not talking about precision pigeonholing. We are talking about the broadest of brush strokes. And what I'm asking is that if you can't explain a simple concept in the loosest of terms, then don't use it, or for damn sure don't correct others when you have no idea what it means either.

We all know slippery terms like love and beauty. Hard to pin down, but understandable enough in general, so we have some grasp on it. Yet we'd never browbeat someone based on what they think is beautiful, right? Yet so many think they can bludgeon people about gender issues, and we've got no self-consistent idea what that even means.

I'm happy to celebrate anyone living their lives honestly, and I'll throw down to help them do so without fear. But don't imply I'm a bigot or whatever because I'm not playing the word games. Either mean something or not, but (g)you don't get to play fast and loose with words to browbeat a brother as a pastime.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Why not?

 

[Thermal]

Don't start.

 

[Robin]

Thermal, for "bisexuality" you were given a clear simple definition which has been widely used since the 70s.

You didn't like it.

Bisexuality is the one that isn't difficult, isn't complex.

Bisexuality is a simpler concept than heterosexuality.

 

[Thermal]

Thermal, for "bisexuality" you were given a clear simple definition which has been widely used since the 70s.

You didn't like it.

It's lovely. I'm fine with it.

Bisexuality is the one that isn't difficult, isn't complex.

Bisexuality is a simpler concept than heterosexuality.

Of course it is. But can we have a consensus that this is the Drag Shows thread and pick that discussion up elsewhere?

 

[Robin]

But can we have a consensus that this is the Drag Shows thread and pick that discussion up elsewhere?

https://youtu.be/3iStjVGSWKs

 

[Darat]

"Call.me he or call me she" seems to +/- indicate that.



The question was where "I was given his own words" in this thread to indicate otherwise, that "I decided to ignore". There's a couple porkies in there I would like to have straightened out.

And that's it?

 

[Robin]

He identifies as Regis and Kathy Lee, like me and the Governor of Tennessee.

Let's close this chapter.

 

[Thermal]

And that's it?

That's all "I was given", yes, in addition to my impression that drag queens are more casual about presenting as other gender representations. I have repeatedly acknowledged that I may be wrong on this point, and will defer to an authoritative source. Still waiting patiently for you to show what else "I was given, in his own words, that I decided to ignore", per your claim.

You are calling me willfully ignorant, refusing to acknowledge a direct quote previously posted. You have the right to lightly insult me, I suppose, but I think I also have the right to challenge your claim before proceeding in the exchange.

 

[wareyin]

That's all "I was given", yes, in addition to my impression that drag queens are more casual about presenting as other gender representations. I have repeatedly acknowledged that I may be wrong on this point, and will defer to an authoritative source. Still waiting patiently for you to show what else "I was given, in his own words, that I decided to ignore", per your claim.

You are calling me willfully ignorant, refusing to acknowledge a direct quote previously posted. You have the right to lightly insult me, I suppose, but I think I also have the right to challenge your claim before proceeding in the exchange.

You're hung up on the "call me she" part of the entire quote so much that you're ignoring the entire thing and the meaning behind the entire thing.

RuPaul didn't mean he identifies as a "she" anymore than he identifies as a "Regis" or a "Kathy Lee". RuPaul was explicitly saying "I don't care what you call me, as long as you call me." It was an "I want your attention, and I don't care what form it comes in" statement.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It is unreasonable to demand clarity in issues of gender and sexuality, and yes, they are related. It is not a clear field. Things don't go neatly into pigeonholes. Different people are different and talk about different things differently.

Okay but there's a limit. "It's complicated" can't be the reflexive answer to everything, especially with the "And not only will I make no attempt to clarify I will get insulted and self righteous at the idea that maybe I should and I'm basically saying it will always be complicated and that's the only answer you'll ever get" subtext.

If it's complicated, explain it better. Or at the very least eventually have a plan for that being the goal.

 

[Darat]

That's all "I was given", yes, in addition to my impression that drag queens are more casual about presenting as other gender representations. I have repeatedly acknowledged that I may be wrong on this point, and will defer to an authoritative source. Still waiting patiently for you to show what else "I was given, in his own words, that I decided to ignore", per your claim.

You are calling me willfully ignorant, refusing to acknowledge a direct quote previously posted. You have the right to lightly insult me, I suppose, but I think I also have the right to challenge your claim before proceeding in the exchange.

His own words from the quotes just a few posts up aren't authoritative enough for you?

It may come as a shock to you but there isn't any such authority for us LGBTs.

 

[TragicMonkey]

It may come as a shock to you but there isn't any such authority for us LGBTs.

Treason! I am the king of the gays, and you will respect my authoritah! I didn't spend all that time gluing sequins onto Barad-dûr to not rule them all, damn it.

 

[Thermal]

His own words from the quotes just a few posts up aren't authoritative enough for you?

It may come as a shock to you but there isn't any such authority for us LGBTs.

Would you mind setting down those goalposts for a moment?

I asked you where this "in his own words, that I was given, and decided to ignore" post was. That would be at (or before) the time you claimed it. Really not clean pool to play ******* Time Lord and grasp at posts made days later.

 

[catsmate]

So, what are the views of male members on drag kings? We have an invite for the weekend, snow leopards permitting....

 

[catsmate]

I'm not much for live entertainment but I would definitely pay money to see drag queens hurl pianos at each other. I am a culture vulture, and have enormously high standards.

It maybe actual duels? With sabres? Or axe throwing? SO#1 has taken it up.

 

[catsmate]

Don't morgues get rather boring after a while?

Actually they can be fun places for some activities...

 

[catsmate]

I don't think so - folk are talking about drag performances.

One of the most adult material and foul mouthed drag queens in the UK was Paul O'Grady and his Lilly Savage character- he transferred Lilly Savage to mainstream and family TV shows - he adjusted his act to his current audience. There is nothing stopping a drag act performing a family friendly act on a Tuesday and adult only on a Wednesday.

And Battersea on the weekend.

 

[JoeMorgue]

So, what are the views of male members on drag kings? We have an invite for the weekend, snow leopards permitting....

I'm hesitant to bring this up because I know where it could lead, but why "drag" seems to only go in one direction does seem like someone that has to at least go on the table as part of the discussion at some point.

Although maybe it's just harder to "dress up" in male clothing, I dunno.

 

[catsmate]

I would actually put a serious fantasy LARPer’s favorite vampire character on equal ideological footing with a typical well developed drag persona. They are both costumed characters being fully played by a performer who has invested a lot of work and love into them, yet not with the intention of literally passing as either a vampire or a woman.

Can you imagine if there was a drag queen roleplaying game with combat? The DRAMA of someone’s drag persona getting killed in combat and having to start a new one? Heads would roll! XD

Some version of Macho Women With Guns perhaps?