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Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)

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You are again showing you do not know what the current policy is.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

The policy is producing bad results. I don't need to know every detail to know something's wrong with it. When these bad results which were never going to happen but keep happening need excuses, it's always "mistakes were made". I never see, "that was a violation of policy, and we're going to punish the person responsible for that violation".
 
As you can see that it is very definitely not allowed in this thread, if you aren’t in lockstep with everything you are the enemy! :D


Indeed. And of course the irony is that they themselves cannot see this. Woe betide anyone who even tries (even in the narrowest way) to challenge the twisted, bigoted orthodoxy of this thread. Like all good zealots, they take it as a matter of faith that their position in inviolably "correct".... no matter that the central tenet of their position - that transgender identity is a fraud and that trans people are mentally ill cosplayers - is diametrically opposite to that of the actual experts in the relevant medical and social science fields.

As I've said many times in the past, we can at least be thankful that none of the transgender-denialist fanatics in this thread are anywhere near the levers of power or influence. Just as when a small band of hard-core reactionary zealots still refused to see homosexuality as anything other than mentally-disordered deviancy - in spite of the relevant experts declaring it to be a valid lived human condition, and in spite of progressive governments throughout the liberalised world legislating for gay rights - so this latter-day bunch of reactionary zealots will rightly get left behind. Still, at least they'll have this nasty little thread (oh, and the comments section of the Daily Mail) in which keep telling each other that they are right and the experts are wrong.
 
BTW Linehan's twitter page is still living down to expectations. It's actually quite sad and concerning to see how a) the man is very possibly in the throes of a mental breakdown, and b) plenty of fellow travellers are enabling and cheering him on in that pursuit. I met him socially in around 2010 at a recording of The IT Crowd at Pinewood (I'd been doing some strategy work with the then-owners of the studio complex), and he was affable, easy-going and entertaining. It's very sad (genuinely) to see what he's become (and to see the consequences upon his personal life and his career), and equally sad to see him being egged on by other zealots.
 
Not true. I am perfectly willing and DO give accommodation to males who want to 'act' or 'live' as a woman. And I really do, in my real life. I'm not a jerk.

There are restrictions though.

Sports
Prisons
Private Spas
(some)Locker rooms
Clinical trials for pharma- based on sex
Scientific sex-based studies

You cant combine male and female into any of this and expect good results.
These common sense resctrictions have people railing against them. A movement that wants to remove sex differneces, to erase the meaning of being female or male- and for my own concerns, in keeping females safe.

That is what I am against.

This is my position as well, and although I can’t speak for everyone, I’ll bet it’s shared by most posting. Yet it will not stop LJ and others referring to people who share this position as bigots and transphobes. This is the main reason that this thread has become, using LJ’s words, a “nasty cesspit”.

Very good post.
 
Indeed. And of course the irony is that they themselves cannot see this. Woe betide anyone who even tries (even in the narrowest way) to challenge the twisted, bigoted orthodoxy of this thread. Like all good zealots, they take it as a matter of faith that their position in inviolably "correct".... no matter that the central tenet of their position - that transgender identity is a fraud and that trans people are mentally ill cosplayers - is diametrically opposite to that of the actual experts in the relevant medical and social science fields.

As I've said many times in the past, we can at least be thankful that none of the transgender-denialist fanatics in this thread are anywhere near the levers of power or influence. Just as when a small band of hard-core reactionary zealots still refused to see homosexuality as anything other than mentally-disordered deviancy - in spite of the relevant experts declaring it to be a valid lived human condition, and in spite of progressive governments throughout the liberalised world legislating for gay rights - so this latter-day bunch of reactionary zealots will rightly get left behind. Still, at least they'll have this nasty little thread (oh, and the comments section of the Daily Mail) in which keep telling each other that they are right and the experts are wrong.

Of all the tiresome things you have posted in this thread, the continued analogy to gay rights is the epitome, and this has been pointed out to you, with evidence, countless times.
 
This is my position as well, and although I can’t speak for everyone, I’ll bet it’s shared by most posting. Yet it will not stop LJ and others referring to people who share this position as bigots and transphobes. This is the main reason that this thread has become, using LJ’s words, a “nasty cesspit”.

Very good post.


I think women deserve the right to single-sex spaces over a wider area than that. I mean, do you really want to give all men who want to enter women's lavatories the legal right to do that? Do you want to compel lesbian dating sites to include men?

We cannot distinguish between a male who is genuinely considerate and one who is a voyeur, flasher or worse. As they say, "decent men stay out of women's spaces so that women can kick the indecent ones out". Women who are trying to escape importunate men need somewhere to escape to. Women of certain religions need single-sex washing and sanitary facilities. Women who have had bad experiences with men are often triggered by the presence of a male body in a space they reasonably considered to be female-only.

Women's single-sex provisions should not be treated as a refuge or therapy for men with identity issues, to the detriment of the women who want to use the facilities. Women should be permitted to organise on a single-sex basis in a far wider sphere than the very restricted examples you mention.
 
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I think women deserve the right to single-sex spaces over a wider area than that. I mean, do you really want to give all men who want to enter women's lavatories the legal right to do that? Do you want to compel lesbian dating sites to include men?

We cannot distinguish between a male who is genuinely considerate and one who is a voyeur, flasher or worse. As they say, "decent men stay out of women's spaces so that women can kick the indecent ones out". Women who are trying to escape importunate men need somewhere to escape to. Women of certain religions need single-sex washing and sanitary facilities. Women who have had bad experiences with men are often triggered by the presence of a male body in a space they reasonably considered to be female-only.

Women's single-sex provisions should not be treated as a refuge or therapy for men with identity issues, to the detriment of the women who want to use the facilities. Women should be permitted to organise on a single-sex basis in a far wider sphere than the very restricted examples you mention.

Fair points, and no arguments. I was highlighting Sherkeu’s post as a good summary rather than exhaustive.
 
I don't really have anything against men who want to wear feminine clothing or makeup or grow their hair or take hormones or have cosmetic surgery. I just have two red lines. You're still male, so stay out of female single-sex spaces and categories, and stay away from children and adolescents with your "trans joy" stunning and brave propaganda.

Women don't just want space away from men, they need it - some more than others, some for psychological and mental health reasons, some for modesty and comfort reasons, some for social reasons. We should be entitled to that space, and entitled to organise as a sex without men jumping in and insisting that this is "discriminatory". If males do not have all the facilities they need they should get going and campaign for them, or just set them up. Like women did a hundred years ago when we didn't have the single-sex facilities we needed, which are now being rendered mixed-sex by male entitlement once again.

Look at the rape crisis centre thing.

Women see other women in desperate straits due to male sexual violence and get together to set up refuges and counselling services. Over time the utility of these becomes obvious to government and some funding is given to them, which they become dependent on. Then government is taken over by the woke, and these services are told they have to become "trans-inclusive" (meaning male-inclusive, because we ain't talking about trans-identifying females here) or that funding will be taken away. The services comply, and women no longer have single-sex provision. Or, they don't comply and are subjected to physical attacks by transactivists. See the whole nailing of the dead rat to the wall and the barbed-wire-encrusted baby-blue-pink-and-white baseball bats thing.

Often the transactivists jeer at the displaced women, "if you want your own facilities then go and set them up yourself!" - ignoring the women's complaint that that's what they did, but these services have now been made mixed-sex. Then in Edinburgh, where all this happened right up to the point where a male was appointed as head of the rape crisis centre despite the job being specifically advertised for female applicants only (citing the Equality Act exemptions), a new single-sex facility was indeed set up to cater for the women who wanted a male-free service.

The transactivists immediately attacked this as "transphobic" and started openly plotting as to how they could arrange for a male person to be turned away and so give them grounds for a legal challenge. Despite they fact that the original mixed, transwomen inclusive service is still right there for them any time they want.

This is the reason for "transphobia". An absolute loss of patience with these male demands to encroach on women's spaces wherever they are set up. While at the same time openly advertising events and services that are exclusively for trans-identified people.

We don't want transwomen not to have things. We simply want them to let us have our things. Which is of course the one thing they will not do.
 
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Your midnight check-in on the petition reports 76,285 signatures, so 1,125 new signatures today. Adam Graham's exploits seem to be doing no harm whatsoever.

The new magic number is 285.7.
 
By their fruits ye shall know them.

The policy is producing bad results. I don't need to know every detail to know something's wrong with it. When these bad results which were never going to happen but keep happening need excuses, it's always "mistakes were made". I never see, "that was a violation of policy, and we're going to punish the person responsible for that violation".

If you won't look you won't see.
 
Very good Substack essay by Jo Phoenix, a professor of criminology, on transgender prisoners, summing up the data released elsewhere; from the start of the year, so before this week's kerfuffle. Worth bookmarking/sharing as needed.
https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/what-do-we-stand-for

It was authored in December 2021, published in January 2022. Interesting blog, can't see anything really to disagree with.
 
For someone who has regularly and repeatedly called me a bigot, you sure don't disagree with me much.
 
It's clear reading it that it's not absolutely cutting-edge recent, but it's still a good piece.
 
It's clear reading it that it's not absolutely cutting-edge recent, but it's still a good piece.

The fact that it was written twelve months before the Scottish bill passed and then he-who-shall-not-be-deadnamed is extremely telling. All of this was predicted, warned about and yet shouted down, until something - nobody is quite sure if it's the timing, the face tattoo, the Visible Penis Line, or all of them together - changed.
 
This thread is relevant to recent discussion here. Unfortunately it's one of these where the author simply cuts an essay into 280-character chunks without reference to where sentences end, but we do our best.

https://twitter.com/OceanbreathCafe/status/1618802678376845312

The topic is the male convicts who are currently housed in the female prison estate in Scotland. People have been talking as if Adam Graham was the only one, but he is not. The others are still there, and (in Cornton Vale at least) occupying the same segregation facility as is used for particularly vulnerable women, including the communal showers. It has been confirmed that Nicola Sturgeon's new zero tolerance policy for transwomen convicted of rape doesn't extend to any other violent or sexual offence, so they're still there. Including six-feet-five Katie, convicted of attempted rape. And as far as Nicola is concerned, they're staying there.

Please remember that female prison officers are forced to do all the intimate rubdown searches. "All people in custody must be rubdown searched in accordance with SPS security standards in accordance with the social gender in which they are living." NONE of these guys have had any surgery or hormone treatment. Except for Sophie who has had laser hair removal while in prison at the taxpayers expense.

Sophie also managed to get a female prison guard to resign after being terrorised by him. Sophie detailed personal information he knew about her and her family. The prison officer said, “If you are a young woman who hasn’t been working with prisoners for a long time, you would be understandably terrified if this guy appears to have personal information about your home address and some kind of obsession with you.”


It's worth reading the whole thing (if you can stomach the part about the adult baby fetishist who insists on being provided with incontinence pads as nappies - and gets them).

James Morton strategised all this (and revealed it in a book published in 2018) in the belief that if violent men including rapists could be "enabled" into the female prison estate in Scotland, it would become well-nigh impossible to deny trans-identifying men access to any female sex-segregated space. This is the result.

There's a better way to treat trans prisoners


Indeed, trans activists strategically targeted prison policy. James Morton, head of the Scottish Trans Alliance, formulated the SPS’s rules. By enabling the service “to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances”, he wrote, “we would be able to ensure all other public services do likewise”. In other words, if horrible things happen to female prisoners, no one will find out (or even care), so we can “prove” to the NHS or schools that self-ID is risk-free.


Note the phrase "on a self-declaration basis". This is what you guys who stand up for the rights of trans-identifying men to invade and occupy women's protected spaces are supporting. And what you're calling me a bigot and a transphobe for getting angry about.

Shame on you.
 
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