• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed? Part II.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Skeptical Greg said:
I've never doubted that Greta is an excellent protestor.

Some might say she has failed somewhat by not having been arrested so far.
MLK was arrested 29 times.
Click to expand...
And assassinated once.

As it happens, after the " I Have a Dream " speech in 1963, we have the " Civil Rights act of !964 "..
Click to expand...


Civil Rights Act of 1964
Lobbying support for the Civil Rights Act was coordinated by the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, a coalition of 70 liberal and labor organizations. The principal lobbyists for the Leadership Conference were civil rights lawyer Joseph L. Rauh Jr. and Clarence Mitchell Jr. of the NAACP.

After the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, on August 28, 1963, the organizers visited Kennedy to discuss the civil rights bill. Roy Wilkins, A. Philip Randolph, and Walter Reuther attempted to persuade him to support a provision establishing a Fair Employment Practices Commission that would ban discriminatory practices by all federal agencies, unions, and private companies
Click to expand...
More than a quarter of a million people were in that march, and every one of them added to its impact.

However this was not what made JFK draft the Civil Rights Act of 1964...

The Civil Rights Act of 1957, signed by President Dwight D. Eisenhower on September 9, 1957, was the first federal civil rights legislation since the Civil Rights Act of 1875 to become law... Partly in an effort to defuse calls for more far-reaching reforms, Eisenhower proposed a civil rights bill that would increase the protection of African American voting rights...

By 1960, black voting had increased by only 3%, and Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1960, which eliminated certain loopholes left by the 1957 Act.

In winning the 1960 United States presidential election, Kennedy took 70% of the African American vote... Kennedy first proposed the 1964 bill in his Report to the American People on Civil Rights on June 11, 1963. He sought legislation "giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public—hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments"—as well as "greater protection for the right to vote".
Click to expand...
Kennedy needed the African American vote, but he didn't need protests. What impact MLK had on Kennedy's actions is unclear - did he craft the bill because it was a cause he truly believed in, or under pressure from civil rights leaders, or simply to get more votes? Either way it's clear that MLKs 'I have Dream Speech' on August 28, 1963 was not the impetus. However it probably helped get the law enacted more than it hindered it.

But hey, I guess after Greta Thunberg has been arrested 29 times and assassinated once (followed by the passing of important legislation that was already being worked on) you will finally admit she wasn't a failure?
 
arthwollipot said:
Odd in what way?
Click to expand...

The way I mentioned before, as if it were stage-managed, with the police waiting for the cameras to arrive.

I don't know. Maybe they were and maybe the police wanted to be seen to be removing Thunberg as carefully as possible rather than get accused of police brutality.
 
Anyway, would love the protestors to hold up signs saying, "Switch the nukes back on!"

That would be the surest way to get off coal-burning power stations.
 
angrysoba said:
The way I mentioned before, as if it were stage-managed, with the police waiting for the cameras to arrive.

I don't know. Maybe they were and maybe the police wanted to be seen to be removing Thunberg as carefully as possible rather than get accused of police brutality.
Click to expand...
Yeah apart from the dodgy twitter account, this just looks like the cops getting a photo op of them arresting her.

Regardless, from all accounts it was all peaceful and routine, and after an identity check she was free to go. Like I said, barely even news.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
I've never doubted that Greta is an excellent protestor.

Some might say she has failed somewhat by not having been arrested so far.
MLK was arrested 29 times.
Click to expand...

And those people would be making a specious argument.

MLK protested laws that literally criminalized black presence and participation in society. As the nature of that sort of protest involves personally violating the laws and enduring the consequences in order to highlight the injustice, naturally he would have been personally subject to repeated arrest.

Thunberg and others like her are protesting attitudes and public policies, not unjust criminal laws that she could intentionally violate to make a point, even in theory. The most she could violate in direct connection with what she's protesting would be trespassing or disobeying situational police orders to disperse a protest that is underway; and as we've just seen, police may decide at any given time that's not even an arrestable thing. It's not some kind of lack of effort on the protester's part.
 
Roger Ramjets said:
And assassinated once.......

But hey, I guess after Greta Thunberg has been arrested 29 times and assassinated once (followed by the passing of important legislation that was already being worked on) you will finally admit she wasn't a failure?
Click to expand...
I guess I should have used some smilies..

I thought it was you who suggested Greta's activism was already right up there with Martin's?
 
Last edited:
The Don said:
My takeaway from this is that if you want to make a significant difference to your carbon footprint through diet then become vegan and accept that although there may be more transportation carbon as a result, the total is a fraction of the carbon from an omnivorous diet, even a local one.

The lowest carbon does come from a locally sourced vegan diet but that's not possible for large parts of the developed world - but then again neither is a locally sourced omnivorous diet.

tl;dr "my" air-freighted green beans from Kenya still have a tiny carbon footprint compared to "your" locally sourced meat.
Click to expand...

Food miles are indeed a poor measure of a food's carbon footprint. But a vegan diet isn't always the best way. For example, commercially grown tomatoes or cucumbers in the UK have a higher carbon footprint than chicken. (Spanish grown has much lower of course, even with the extra miles).

Then of course, there's rice, with the methane given off many paddy fields.

Air freighted veg will often have a higher carbon footprint than many meats.

While many meats have a higher carbon footprint (beef/lamb of course), its not always the case.
 
Last edited:
wobs said:
Food miles are indeed a poor measure of a food's carbon footprint. But a vegan diet isn't always the best way. For example, commercially grown tomatoes or cucumbers in the UK have a higher carbon footprint than chicken. (Spanish grown has much lower of course, even with the extra miles).

Then of course, there's rice, with the methane given off many paddy fields.

Air freighted veg will often have a higher carbon footprint than many meats.

While many meats have a higher carbon footprint (beef/lamb of course), its not always the case.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think if you make a targeted approach to your diet and try to look at each individual food, you can probably make some large gains on individual items. As a basic heuristic eating vegan is probably one of the best ways to lower your carbon footprint, but there will be some changes away from veganism that would actually lower it further (as you say).
 
angrysoba said:
Yeah, but I saw some video of it which looked weirdly stage-managed.
Click to expand...

Apparently a lot of people thought that:

Greta Thunberg: German police deny protest detainment was staged

German police have denied being "extras for Greta Thunberg" after false claims that her detainment at a protest in western Germany was staged.

A viral post falsely claimed the climate activist being held by police was "all set up for the cameras".
Click to expand...

It does look like the police did briefly stop to allow photographers a chance to get a good shot. Nevertheless, she was actually arrested.
 
OK, so now that the locavore idea has been shot down in flames and I can continue to have Voss water (in glass bottles) shipped +7000km to my home, guilt free.

I'm pleased to see that there has been a recent development in the government restricting people's access to specific foods in the name of climate change.Good on ya Edinburgh. Now lets go further and ban the serving/sale of meat in the entire city. Time to start rethinking that national dish as well. Or at least reimagine it using beans, rice and soy pastry.

Link
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom