Transwomen are not women - X (XY?)

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If one can't defend their position without poisoning the well by calling the opposition children, I don't understand why they would continue. You're certainly not doing your cause any favors by representing it.
 
See also "bigots". It's just "I'm self-evidently right so you are a despicable person if you disagree with me."
 
I looked in on the petition at midnight, and it was at 69,405. At 12.06am it was at 69,408. So that's 408 signatures in 24 hours, and it seems to be maintaining about that rate. At the moment it needs an average of just over 315 signatures per day to hit the target, so it seems to be in with a good chance.

At 12.07am today the petition had reached 69,807 signatures, so adding almost 400 for the day, above your target of 315/day. Should go over 70K tomorrow, another milestone.
 
It's just a fun bit of arithmetic. (I just did the online autism test, and no I am NOT.) If it keeps exceeding the current average-needed-to-target then the average will keep falling, that's just the sums. If it misses, then the average will start to increase. I think it may have become self-sustaining though.


Checked in at midnight again, now 69,807. That's 402 since midnight yesterday as opposed to 405 the previous day. The magic number is now 314.5, so still on track.
 
If one can't defend their position without poisoning the well by calling the opposition children, I don't understand why they would continue. You're certainly not doing your cause any favors by representing it.


Ah, you see: "adults" in this context does not imply "children" as its antonym. The term "adults" is being used to describe objective, analytical, intelligent people who are properly informed of the relevant facts and medical opinions, and who have carefully taken all factors into account when arriving at conclusions and policy initiatives, in a calm & hysteria-free fashion.

And most people posting in this thread are the opposite of most or all of those descriptors.

But hey: you guys feel free to carry on with your rationalisation of the progressive reforms as "institutional capture" and other assorted nonsense. Whatever floats your collective boat. Just know that you're on the wrong side.

Oh and any suggestion that reformers and progressive thinkers do not have the risk to cis women in mind, let alone that they are "misogynists", is an out-and-out misrepresentation and a lie. The adults understand all the risks and benefits to every group, and they are legislating (and will continue to monitor and adjust legislation) accordingly. Again, the posters in this toxic little thread can continue feeling free to cloak their fundamental denial of transgender identity in fears about cis women's safety, but the cloak has slipped too many times.

Enjoy!
 
Checked in at midnight again, now 69,807. That's 402 since midnight yesterday as opposed to 405 the previous day. The magic number is now 314.5, so still on track.


I have my phone alarm set for every two hours so that I can monitor the signature numbers bi-hourly, 24 hours per day. I feel it's an excellent use of my time and sanity.
 
But hey: you guys feel free to carry on with your rationalisation of the progressive reforms as "institutional capture" and other assorted nonsense. Whatever floats your collective boat. Just know that you're on the wrong side.
Which side are you on regarding the question raised in the OP? (I thought you said Laurel Hubbard shouldn't compete against females.)



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Oh and any suggestion that reformers and progressive thinkers do not have the risk to cis women in mind, let alone that they are "misogynists", is an out-and-out misrepresentation and a lie. The adults understand all the risks and benefits to every group, and they are legislating (and will continue to monitor and adjust legislation) accordingly.

Well, not according to Robert Wintemute, who said that women's rights were not considered when drawing up the Yogyakarta Principles.
 
I see that thing that will never be allowed to happen just happened again.

https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/10/investigation-underway-into-possible-rape-hamilton-county-jail/

It's OK, Rolfe:

ODRC adheres to all applicable policies and procedures, including Federal Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA) standards and guidelines, says department spokeswoman JoEllen Smith.

No ODRC policies were violated in classifying (the accused inmate),” she said.

See, no policies were violated! This is the way it's supposed to work.
 
It's OK, Rolfe:

ODRC adheres to all applicable policies and procedures, including Federal Prison Rape Elimination Act (PREA) standards and guidelines, says department spokeswoman JoEllen Smith.

No ODRC policies were violated in classifying (the accused inmate),” she said.

See, no policies were violated! This is the way it's supposed to work.

You left out the words “progressive” and “adult”. Otherwise good summation. ;)
 
I have my phone alarm set for every two hours so that I can monitor the signature numbers bi-hourly, 24 hours per day. I feel it's an excellent use of my time and sanity.


That seems a little excessive, indeed obsessive, to me, but you do you.
 
That seems a little excessive, indeed obsessive, to me, but you do you.

I think LJ was ineptly trying to parody us for checking in every day, even though you've said quite recently that it's just a bit of fun. Which it is.

The more serious side applies generically to all petitions - how fast do people sign up, what might cause surges either well before the deadline or just before the deadline, whether petitions become self-sustaining or get nudged into that - and not to the content. That's why the Woodcock petition was mentioned not that long ago.
 
Yeah, I know. The one relating to the Dangerous Dogs Act is interesting too, and it's a cause dear to my heart. It's obviously going to make it, but it's already had a dismissive response. It specifically asks for a "new framework", but the response ignored that and said it would be bad to repeal it without other measures in place. Maybe the debate will get into that though.

This one is interesting in that it isn't susceptible to a glib dismissal, which is presumably why they haven't given a response despite one being massively overdue and it being chased.
 
Oh, so it has. I was too busy doing Duolingo to notice! It does seem to be slower today. As you say, it's interesting to try to figure out what influences this. I have no idea if weekends, or Sundays, would make any difference.
 
I see that thing that will never be allowed to happen just happened again.

https://www.fox19.com/2023/01/10/investigation-underway-into-possible-rape-hamilton-county-jail/

You owe me a keyboard.


“It’s a very unusual situation, almost unheard of,” says another attorney, Mark Krumbein of Cincinnati.

Rape in prison is almost unheard of? :boggled:

Where in the world did all those "don't drop your soap" jokes come from? :rolleyes: It would be nice if didn't happen. But it does.
 
Ah, you see: "adults" in this context does not imply "children" as its antonym. The term "adults" is being used to describe objective, analytical, intelligent people who are properly informed of the relevant facts and medical opinions, and who have carefully taken all factors into account when arriving at conclusions and policy initiatives, in a calm & hysteria-free fashion.
No.

It's exactly what other posters have characterized it as.

People who agree with you = adults.
People who disagree with you = not adults (implied: children)

It's a means of avoiding and dismissing arguments or points by infantilizing the person who is making it. Addressing the arguer rather than the argument.


And most people posting in this thread are the opposite of most or all of those descriptors.

And the direct insult, where you have out and out called people who have a different view hysterical and lacking of intelligent.

Don't get me wrong, I have issues with some of the language and "tone" of some on the other side of this debate as well. But at least they post some evidence to support their position.

It's not worth debating with you because you haven't presented a position or evidence to weigh in quite a while.

But hey: you guys feel free to carry on with your rationalisation of the progressive reforms as "institutional capture" and other assorted nonsense. Whatever floats your collective boat. Just know that you're on the wrong side.

Oh and any suggestion that reformers and progressive thinkers do not have the risk to cis women in mind, let alone that they are "misogynists", is an out-and-out misrepresentation and a lie. The adults understand all the risks and benefits to every group, and they are legislating (and will continue to monitor and adjust legislation) accordingly. Again, the posters in this toxic little thread can continue feeling free to cloak their fundamental denial of transgender identity in fears about cis women's safety, but the cloak has slipped too many times.

Enjoy!
Regarding the highlighted, there has been evidence presented for that assertion in at least one case. I don't necessarily think that's a broad truth, but I don't see you presenting evidence to the contrary.

Nor have you presented evidence that there is any true concensus about transgender issues and how they should be treated in every situation. There is certainly no medical concensus about their participation in female sports. Nor have I seen quotes from doctors saying that trans-women must use gendered spaces rather than sexed spaces. This is not mentioned in the DSM-5.

Legislators, similarly, seem to not have a clear view, as there seem to be contradictory or controversial laws being passed all over the world.

The fact is, it's a subject of debate in the U.S. From what I've seen, it's a subject of debate in the U.K. and (at least parts of) Europe as well.

The whole "valid identity" thing is a mischaracterisation as well. It is possible, for example, to think that trans women have a valid identity that is not the same as "man" but is also not "women." There's that whole non-binary thing. Because gender is not sex.
 
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