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Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed? Part II.

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I'm sure I'm not expressing myself very well.

I'm not saying Greta has failed personally..

I'm saying, along with others, that her activism is having no result in any way that matters. Why should we celebrate an activist who is not getting any results?

No one, no country, no entity that has the power to implement the changes that Greta has called for, it doing anything in that regard.
Now, if Greta backs off, and calls for gradual change, then those who are praising her activism, might have reason to celebrate..


Isn't that splitting hairs, nitpicking, clutching at straws?

Say she ends everything she says with, "And if we can't achieve all of that, then let's at least do what we can"; then suddenly she transforms from failure to success worthy of celebration?

First, to say that would itself dampen her message; and in any case represent a giving in to hopelessness that I hope age never teaches this spunky idealist to succumb to; and finally, that criticism, and this agreeing to celebrate her if only she added this qualification to her message, is simply nitpicking, that makes no sense really.
 
I have to say that I'm significantly annoyed by the straw narrative that we have to pick between living in mud huts and walking everywhere, or doing nothing at all.
 
I guess in a way our species is a perpetual teenager.

Not do this fun thing now so I won't have problems later? Nah, lets just live like no tomorrow, smoke, drink and be merry, I'm sure I will be the one not to be negatively effected when I get old.

*30 years later*
I wish I'd never .....

It is kind of weird, especially with parents.
I guess most parents would throw themselves under a bus if they could prevent their kids from getting hit. But changing the lifestyle to saves their kids? No thanks.
 
I have to say that I'm significantly annoyed by the straw narrative that we have to pick between living in mud huts and walking everywhere, or doing nothing at all.

If you peeled back the layers of that idiocy you'd find a capital C conservative with a heap of oil shares.
 
I have to say that I'm significantly annoyed by the straw narrative that we have to pick between living in mud huts and walking everywhere, or doing nothing at all.

Straw narrative indeed. Nobody in this thread is advocating the do nothing position however there is no room for your personal automobile, even an electric one as pavement, especially for things like parking (in lots, driveways, and on street) is environmentally hostile. Think ebikes and shared use pathways instead.
 
I have to say that I'm significantly annoyed by the straw narrative that we have to pick between living in mud huts and walking everywhere, or doing nothing at all.

In the minds of some people, curtailing unfettered capitalism in any way is equivalent to living in mud huts.
 
I'm sure I'm not expressing myself very well.

I'm not saying Greta has failed personally..

I'm saying, along with others, that her activism is having no result in any way that matters. Why should we celebrate an activist who is not getting any results?

No one, no country, no entity that has the power to implement the changes that Greta has called for, it doing anything in that regard.

Now, if Greta backs off, and calls for gradual change, then those who are praising her activism, might have reason to celebrate..


If she calls for gradual change then, if it's too late for gradual change to produce the desired effect, her activism will inevitably have "no result in any way that matters".
 
I would be interested in your reply to Stout's post, right above your post.

I doubt I'll get any responses to that post from Thunbergophiles as the minute they start writing they start to realize that their fat white upper middle class lifestyle is going down in flames along with the corporations they like tho shake their fists at.

Thunberg cited the pandemic as evidence that the world can work together to overcome a massive problem so that's what I used as my basis for how things need to unfold. Emissions dropped in the first half of 2020 and in order to hit the 1.5C limit people are so worked up about then those emission reductions would need to be made permanent.

Followed then by an equal amount of reductions in 2021 and yet another round of equal reductions in 2022. Now we're at 2023 and looking at a further set of reductions...everybody still happy?

Oh yea, don't forget those global emission reductions, those are only meant to be applied to developed nations because they have a long history of emissions and are solely responsible for the state of the world's climate today so double, triple, quadruple your location's emission reductions.

That's why we have Thunberg's accomplishments listed to things like talking about an issue everybody knows about (seeing as how we hear about it daily and preschoolers learn about it in preschool) and making clever statements on Twitter.

She;'s a great symbol to use to advertise one's liberalness though. She's great for stamping you feet and railing against conservatives while conveniently ignoring her demands verge on the edge of crazy. Maybe that stuff works on young wide eyed idealists, like the idea of eliminating money and making everything free but I'm surprised to see it working on functioning adults.
 
A person who uses a phrase as ******* stupid as "Thunbergophiles" should definitely get a seat at the table with other people who are having intelligent conversation.
 
Thunberg cited the pandemic as evidence that the world can work together to overcome a massive problem so that's what I used as my basis for how things need to unfold. Emissions dropped in the first half of 2020 and in order to hit the 1.5C limit people are so worked up about then those emission reductions would need to be made permanent.

Followed then by an equal amount of reductions in 2021 and yet another round of equal reductions in 2022. Now we're at 2023 and looking at a further set of reductions...everybody still happy?
Except we aren't.

Things were going in the right direction during the pandemic, but of course we knew that would be short-lived. The pandemic proved that we can reduce emissions and keep them down if we make it a priority. But in many people's mind's today it's not even on the RADAR. All we care about are the horrors of inflation and high gas prices.

Frankly I'm getting sick of it. We had much higher inflation in the past and the world didn't end. Seems too many people today have short memories (or could some just be too young? Nah, young people have their priorities right). The next time someone whines to me about how prices are going up I will give them an earful. What was the biggest cost increase I had to bear last year? Insurances. Why? They tell me it's because of global warming...

Anybody who who wants to lower their transportation costs knows what to do. The pandemic proved that much of the traveling we do is unnecessary. Many jobs can be done remotely, you can still enjoy the holidays without that trip to Europe etc.

Oh yea, don't forget those global emission reductions, those are only meant to be applied to developed nations because they have a long history of emissions and are solely responsible for the state of the world's climate today so double, triple, quadruple your location's emission reductions.
Before laying on the snark you might try actually looking at the numbers. Currently the biggest emitter by far is China. But who is largely responsible for that? The West, because they make products for us. We're not emitting so much CO2 outselves because we exported it to China.

China may still officially be classed as a 'developing' nation, but she isn't holding her hand out for charity. China has spent more in global warming mitigation than any other country in the world. And 66% of China's fossil fuel usage is for industry, including making products for export to western countries. So in a way she is paying for our emissions.

Most 'developing' countries are having negligible impact because they are too poor to afford a western lifestyle. OTOH they are suffering way more from the consequences. Take the tiny Island nation of Tuvalu for example, one of the least-developed countries in the world:-

One day we'll disappear
“The sea is eating all the sand,” says Frank... “Before, the sand used to stretch out far, and when we swam we could see the sea floor, and the coral. Now, it is cloudy all the time, and the coral is dead."

Porous, salty soil has made the ground almost totally useless for planting, destroying staple pulaka crops and decreasing the yields of various fruits and vegetables.

Since the rising ocean contaminated underwater ground supplies, Tuvalu is now totally reliant on rainwater, and droughts are occurring with alarming frequency. Even if the locals could plant successfully, there is now not enough rain to keep even simple kitchen gardens alive.

The fish too, the stuff of life here, have become suspect. Ciguatera poisoning affects reef fish who have ingested micro-algaes expelled by bleached coral... Around ten Tuvaluans present with ciguatera poisoning every week, accounting for about 10% of the weekly case-load of climate-related illnesses...

Climate-related illnesses that have increased on par with the changing weather include influenza, fungal diseases, conjunctivitis, and dengue fever, according to the hospital’s research.

Every Tuvaluan could be driving their SUV around all day and running the air conditioning all night, pigging out on barbecued beef and burning stuff continuously for fun, and their CO2 emissions still wouldn't amount to a drop in the bucket compared to the West. Asking them to achieve the same per capita reductions as us would be more than an insult. If they don't get help from us, the CO2 we emitted will literally destroy their country.

The other reason we should be giving them aid is because we can. We benefited far more from being able to use the atmosphere as a free sewer than we will ever have to pay back. By giving out just enough aid to put a bandaid on it we are getting off lightly - but even that is apparently too much for some. You immorally profited at the expense others, yet despite getting rich from it you won't lift a finger to redress the harm you did to them. The only word I can think of for that is - deplorable.

She;'s a great symbol to use to advertise one's liberalness though. She's great for stamping you feet and railing against conservatives while conveniently ignoring her demands verge on the edge of crazy. Maybe that stuff works on young wide eyed idealists, like the idea of eliminating money and making everything free but I'm surprised to see it working on functioning adults.
You seem to be very confused. Thunberg has excoriated conservatives and liberals alike for not doing enough. And where did she suggest eliminating money and making everything free? Only in the fevered imagination of a 'conservative' who thinks anyone not happy with destroying the world for profit is a communist.
 
Except we aren't.

Things were going in the right direction during the pandemic, but of course we knew that would be short-lived. The pandemic proved that we can reduce emissions and keep them down if we make it a priority. But in many people's mind's today it's not even on the RADAR. All we care about are the horrors of inflation and high gas prices.

Agreed and given the supposed "revenge flying" we've seen there's not a lot of hope that reducing emissions in anything other than a superficial way will ever be on enough people's radar.

I can'r say I know anybody who's in a heat-or-eat lifestyle situation. Sure, I've read about them but today's inflation is easily dealt with by cutting down resturant visits and eating more at home. Some people figured this out during the pandemic (remember all that bread making?) where some went the other way and "supported local business" by ordering constant meal delivery. Yes, inflation has been worse in the past, remember Whip Inflation Now ?

Anybody who who wants to lower their transportation costs knows what to do. The pandemic proved that much of the traveling we do is unnecessary. Many jobs can be done remotely, you can still enjoy the holidays without that trip to Europe etc.

Exactly. There's still some work from home going on, mostly part time, half time in the office, half at home which is still significant if a worker has a substantial commute but things like COP still had to happen in person. Why, you ask? It seemed it was too much of an ask to expect delegates to stay up late or get up early do deal with the upcomming "mass extinction". Canada alone just had to send 335 delegates.

Kind of drives a stake into the whole working from home argument.

Before laying on the snark you might try actually looking at the numbers. Currently the biggest emitter by far is China. But who is largely responsible for that? The West, because they make products for us. We're not emitting so much CO2 outselves because we exported it to China.

Yes, I'm well aware of why China is the world's top emitter and I've dealt with the MTCO2/pp argument (China vs West) before but we just gotta have those massive inflatable Halloween decorations for our front yards, for the kids you know. I'm also aware of just how much of our "recycling" we've shipped of to China in the past however as a developing nation China is somewhat exempted from too much Thunberg scrutiny.

She tried it once and the Chinese media fat shamed her but she was strangely quiet when COP 26 ended up in a China+India led boondoggle

Most 'developing' countries are having negligible impact because they are too poor to afford a western lifestyle. OTOH they are suffering way more from the consequences. Take the tiny Island nation of Tuvalu for example, one of the least-developed countries in the world:-

Yes, Tuvalu is going to become a dive site, as is Kiribati , The Maldives, etc.. Those populations are going to need relocation (Tuvalu has already digitized it's entire culture and uploaded it to Facebook). Relocation would have been a good topic for COP rather than tossion huge amounts of cash at them until the inevitable happens. Maybe COP 83 will attempt to deal with this.

So why are these countries such low emitters ? Well of course it's because they're living a lifestyle most western Thunbergophiles are totally terrified of.

You seem to be very confused. Thunberg has excoriated conservatives and liberals alike for not doing enough. And where did she suggest eliminating money and making everything free? Only in the fevered imagination of a 'conservative' who thinks anyone not happy with destroying the world for profit is a communist.

No confusion, she's limited her chastising to governments and if you want to include liberal governments in there, then I agree, she's chastised liberals too. Point is, this whole approach of saying you want your government to make you stop burning fossil fuels while you burn as much fossil fuel as you can while living the best life that you can, isn't hasn't and won't do anything to save the planet.

I said her her demand that we eliminate the use of fossil fuels was like the idea of ending money, I didn't attribute that idea to her. Both are impossible ideas that pretty much nobody wants.
 
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:thumbsup: Well articulated counter to conservative fear mongering.

Fear mongering? Do you know who Greta Thunberg is ? She pretty much created climate anxiety in young people and if my post is what you consider fear mongering then you need to brush up on your Thunberg. Start with "we are at the beginning of a mass extinction."
 
LoL Good one bro, high five! Yeah! Woo! You really showed me! Dope retort broski! I didn't even know Tate had an account here.

What? You were expecting a more substantial response to your stupid post? Ooooo a Tate reference, sick burn dood. :thumbsup:
 
Fear mongering? Do you know who Greta Thunberg is ? She pretty much created climate anxiety in young people and if my post is what you consider fear mongering then you need to brush up on your Thunberg. Start with "we are at the beginning of a mass extinction."

What? No she didn't.

2018 surveys conducted in the United States found between 21%[12] and 29%[13] of Americans said they were "very" worried about the climate, double the rate of a similar study in 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-anxiety

She wasnt well known in the us until late 2018.

I even agree with some of your points in a previous post, the cynic in me is rolling my eyes that the COP conferences can't be virtual because people can't be bothered to join at non ideal time zones for example.
 
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